composer314 writes "The Associated Press is reporting that the small European nation of Estonia has conducted large-scale voting over the internet. From the article: "Last week, Estonia became the first country in the world to hold an election allowing voters nationwide to cast ballots over the internet. Fewer than 10,000 people, or 1 percent of registered voters, participated online in elections for mayors and city councils across the country, but officials hailed the experiment as a success." The system is built on Linux." I guess it works well when the internet is considered a human right. Estonian Internet Voting Called a Success Log in/Create an Account | Top | 147 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 147 comments 0: 143 comments 1: 115 comments 2: 79 comments 3: 21 comments 4: 13 comments 5: 6 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. It's SUCH a success (Score:2, Funny) by ludomancer (921940) on Tuesday October 18, @07:47PM (#13822555) Such a success, we got back twice as many votes as our population! We had no idea it would work so well! [ Reply to ThisRe:It's SUCH a success by zxnos (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:54PM Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? (Score:3, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18, @07:48PM (#13822563) Call me a geographically challenged USA-ian, but I think this must be a hoax.If you read the Dilbert cartoon, Estonia is the fake country with the bearded peopleAnd if it were real, I'm sure I would have heard of it buy now since all the real countries have obvious names like England, Mexico, Canada, France, etc. etc.I actually wonder about some of those -stan prefixed former Russian countries...do they exist? [ Reply to This Re:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? (Score:4, Informative) by RLiegh (247921) * on Tuesday October 18, @07:51PM (#13822599) (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 09, @09:24PM) Estonia [simpleworldmaps.com] You're welcome. [ Reply to This | Parent2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by Daedalus-Ubergeek (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @07:52PM Re:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? (Score:5, Informative) by Marxist Hacker 42 (638312) * <seebert@seeberfamily.org> on Tuesday October 18, @07:53PM (#13822614) (http://www.informationr.us/ | Last Journal: Friday October 14, @03:38PM) No, that's Elbonia- Estonia is about 50 miles north of where Elbonia is supposed to be. They're full of forests and songs instead of mud. (no, really- their revolution was called the "singing revolution" because as the soviet tanks were leaving, they were followed by crowds of people singing songs. Velio Tormis was their "Conductor General", and they've only been free since 1992). [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by composer314 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:15PMRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by AuMatar (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:25PMRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by rossdee (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:05PMRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:55PM Re:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? (Score:4, Funny) by Savage-Rabbit (308260) on Tuesday October 18, @08:04PM (#13822700) Estonia is the fake country with the bearded people. No thats Elbonia, and I deeply resent your ignorance we are not a fake country [uncyclopedia.org].I actually wonder about some of those -stan prefixed former Russian countries...do they exist? Well, the thing is those *stan countries were blasted into in orbit around Pluto by the Soviet space agency during the cold war since they proved to be a general nuisance. The only exception is Afghanistan which had to be brought down to earth a few years ago for a major overhaul due to a massive rodent infestation. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by Hyperlink Processor (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:06PM Re:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? (Score:5, Funny) by pharwell (854602) on Tuesday October 18, @08:12PM (#13822754) (http://www.philharwell.com/blog/) I actually wonder about some of those -stan prefixed former Russian countries...do they exist? Like -stanUkraine? Or -stanGeorgia? Hmm. Not sure, but I think they're fake. [ Reply to This | ParentIt's ELBONIA by Nirvelli (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:17PMRe:It's ELBONIA by composer314 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:32PMEstonia a little reality check by voss (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @09:00PM2 replies beneath your current threshold.Best troll I've seen in a long time :-) by ardle (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @10:58PMRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by Alyne (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:34AMRe:Isn't Estonia that "fake country" in Dilbert? by uvajed_ekil (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:44AM3 replies beneath your current threshold. A success? With a 1% turnout? (Score:5, Funny) by Starker_Kull (896770) on Tuesday October 18, @07:48PM (#13822570) I wonder what would have had to happen for it to be considered a failure. [ Reply to ThisRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by MightyMartian (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:50PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by aussie_a (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:54PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by moviepig.com (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:24PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by sunwolf (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:32PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by KillShill (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:37PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by bypedd (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @08:50PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by bypedd (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:41AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:A success? With a 1% turnout? by Short Circuit (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:53PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by Aranth Brainfire (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:53PMRe:A success? With a 1% turnout? by darkitecture (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:32PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Did anyone read that as... (Score:1) by Daedalus-Ubergeek (600951) on Tuesday October 18, @07:48PM (#13822571) "Elbonian Internet Voting" the first time you saw it?Just wait till you try to find it on a map! [ Reply to This And in other news (Score:4, Funny) by kiore (734594) on Tuesday October 18, @07:49PM (#13822581) (http://www.kiore.com/ | Last Journal: Friday April 01, @05:03PM) An unprecedented write-in vote by internet users sends Kevin Mitnick to the Whitehouse. [ Reply to This hacker voters.. (Score:3, Funny) by easterlingman (889205) on Tuesday October 18, @07:50PM (#13822586) Were that to happen in the United States we'd get 500 million votes for Senator Linus Torvalds.. [ Reply to ThisRe:hacker voters.. by Marxist Hacker 42 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:55PMRe:hacker voters.. by sunwolf (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:38PMRe:hacker voters.. by timpaton (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:38PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Good news (Score:1) by hysma (546540) on Tuesday October 18, @07:50PM (#13822588) It's great that they've been able to use our up and coming Universal Communication Medium to form the government. One step forward... now for other countries to follow their lead. [ Reply to This Privacy? (Score:5, Interesting) by zoloto (586738) * on Tuesday October 18, @07:51PM (#13822594) To cast an online ballot, voters need a special ID card, a $24 device that reads the card and a computer with Internet access. About 80 percent of Estonian voters have the ID cards, which have been used since 2002 for online access to bank accounts and tax records.Election committee officials said the ID card system had proved effective and reliable and dismissed any security concerns with using it for the online ballot.Information is sparse, but does anyone know if votes were linked to who voted for what? And what kind of proof can we find that voting a particular way won't involve retaliation...? I'd like this in the USA, but I'm unsure /adjusts tin-foil hat [ Reply to ThisRe:Privacy? by Chris Burke (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @08:05PMRe:Privacy? by QuantumG (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @10:13PMRe:Privacy? by Rich0 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:34PMRe:Privacy? by nunchux (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:34PMRe:Privacy? by QuantumG (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:38PMRe:Privacy? by hexi (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:14AMRe:Privacy? by QuantumG (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:17AM Wont work in US (Score:2) by DigiShaman (671371) on Tuesday October 18, @07:51PM (#13822597) (http://www.contoso.com/) Because you still have to validate in PERSON that you are who you say you are. Simply put, our country must make sure no one else votes are your behalf. [ Reply to ThisRe:Wont work in US by jdigriz (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:04PMRe:Wont work in US by Ironsides (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:24PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.2 replies beneath your current threshold. Well... (Score:1) by max99ted (192208) on Tuesday October 18, @07:52PM (#13822604) The system is built on Linux ...hopefully that blunt statement will minimize the "yeah but does it run..." comments - time will tell. [ Reply to ThisRe:Well... by RLiegh (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:57PMRe:Well... by NetRAVEN5000 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:58PM Very cool! (Score:2) by Zenmonkeycat (749580) on Tuesday October 18, @07:59PM (#13822667) I actually wasn't /that/ surprised that Estonia has such an internet-savvy political system. Estonia was one of the first countries to break away from the USSR (along with Latvia and Lithuania) as a result of the "Singing Revolution." [ Reply to This WWBX (Score:1) by C4BL3 (698553) on Tuesday October 18, @08:06PM (#13822711) That is just great!, Now instead of regular Black voting boxes we are going to have wold wide black boxes!Seems like something Florida State might wanna upgrade to! [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Diebold's officials . . . (Score:4, Funny) by ln -sf head ass (585724) on Tuesday October 18, @08:06PM (#13822715) . . . downplayed reports of a test round of balloting in which tabulations resulted in George W. Bush as the winner of the election for Prime Minister of Estonia. [ Reply to This This should not exist (Score:3, Insightful) by El Cabri (13930) on Tuesday October 18, @08:07PM (#13822722) (Last Journal: Thursday September 15, @01:33PM) Voting over the internet, or any kind of distance voting for that matter, violates a very basic premise of the democratic process : that each vote is guaranteed to belong to the one in the name of whom it is cast. There is no guarantee with remote voting that the voter has not sold her vote, or that no pressure has been exercised on her.Voting should consist in having people go completely alone in isolated booths. A vote on a country's government is not an internet poll. [ Reply to ThisRe:This should not exist by jumpingfred (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:21PMRe:This should not exist by xerid (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:30PMRe:This should not exist by Short Circuit (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:59PMRe:This should not exist by El Cabri (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:12PMRe:This should not exist by techno-vampire (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:26PMRe:This should not exist by raikje (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:31PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Breaking news (Score:2, Funny) by No2Gates (239823) on Tuesday October 18, @08:09PM (#13822738) Bill Gates, chairman of Microsoft, on hearing of the news about Estonia's good fortune utilizing Linux for their successful voting, purchased the country. The voting is now nullified with the purchase, however all citizens who voted will be given discount coupons on purchases of any Microsoft product. [ Reply to This Direct Democracy (Score:5, Interesting) by lawpoop (604919) on Tuesday October 18, @08:10PM (#13822743) (http://lawpoop.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Friday May 28, @07:51PM) I see this and future use of internet voting as steps toward direct democracy. I predict that within this century, some countries will use direct democracy [wikipedia.org] as the legislative body on the local and regional level. Direct Democracy is where citizens can directly propose and vote on legislation, making representatives redundant.When democracy was first proposed, it was long argued by the elite that peasants were not smart enough to rule themselves; they needed kings to keep society from collapsing. Even the first democracies were collections of wealthy land-owning males -- almost 90% of the population, including women, slaves, and peasants, were not enfranchised into the government. Well, those naysayers were wrong, and commoners are perfectly capable of running representational democracies.The thing is, representatives are a compromise anyways. In days when farmers worked 14 hour days 6 days a week, no one had the time to travel meet up with everyone else to discuss politics. The American legal system is based on how long it takes a person travelling on horseback to transmit information.Now with the advent of the internet and other communication technologies, representatives are redundant. We could propose and vote on laws ourselves, over the internet. Problems such as authentication and verification have been solved in various communication systems. As soon as the general public gets the hang of internet discussions, people will see direct democracy as a reasonable alternative to representational democracy. This could happen within a generation or two.Of course, current politicians will resist direct democracy, because it puts them out of their incredibly powerful positions. [ Reply to This Re:Direct Democracy (Score:5, Insightful) by bigg_nate (769185) on Tuesday October 18, @08:26PM (#13822848) The California proposition system is essentially direct democracy, and IMO it's a disaster. People aren't lawyers, and they aren't economists -- they simply don't have the skills to determine if a given law is good or not. This means we end up with ridiculous laws that sound good in a 4-word summary, like three strikes (tough on crime -- must be good!) and frozen property taxes (lower taxes -- must be good!). Additionally, as the battle over Native American casinos has shown, the public isn't any harder to buy than a politician.Direct democracy might work at an extremely local level, but the general public simply does not have the necessary knowledge to participate in large-scale direct democracy. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Direct Democracy by jacksonyee (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:39PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:58PM Re:Direct Democracy (Score:4, Insightful) by lawpoop (604919) on Tuesday October 18, @08:47PM (#13822986) (http://lawpoop.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Friday May 28, @07:51PM) As in my comment above, people said commoners weren't smart enough to rule themselves through representational democracy, thus they needed kings and royalty to rule them. It's a tired argument. However, you are right. People aren't lawyers, but nonetheless they are expected to follow the law to the letter. Try using this as an excuse in court: "But Your Honor! I'm not a lawyer! How could I be expected to follow the law when I can't even understand it? Why, I haven't even read it!" If people are smart enough to be expected to follow the law, they are smart enough to propose and vote on law. People are smart enough to do all of the above.If direct democracy is implemented in any serious manner, people will become familiar enough with the law to do it well. You would study it in civics class in high school. You would talk about it over dinner just like you do other subjects. People are smart enough to finance their homes, vehicles, and education; they are smart enough to run their own businesses, and they are smart enough to follow the law in everyday life. They are smart enough to recognize right and wrong and are fully capable of proposing and arguing rules over the internet. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Direct Democracy by monkeydo (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:59PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:35PMRe:Direct Democracy by bigg_nate (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @09:19PMthe will of the people, not necessarily their word by cgenman (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:46PMRe:Direct Democracy by Jebediah21 (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:45AMRe:Direct Democracy by dubl-u (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:37PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:58PMRe:Direct Democracy by heinousjay (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:14PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:01AMRe:Direct Democracy by heinousjay (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:22AMRe:Direct Democracy by dubl-u (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:46AMRe:Direct Democracy by digid (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @09:08PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:21PMJust that much easier to by msimm (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:08PMRe:Just that much easier to by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:36PMRe:Just that much easier to by msimm (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:27PMRe:Just that much easier to by lawpoop (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:09AMRe:Direct Democracy by Now.Imperfect (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @10:11PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:31PMRe:Direct Democracy by Now.Imperfect (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @10:52PMRe:Direct Democracy by lawpoop (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:07AMRe:Direct Democracy by Now.Imperfect (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:18AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Proof? by backslashdot (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @10:21PMRe:Proof? by lawpoop (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:42PMCall me in two centuries.. by backslashdot (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:10PMAh yes, just like Athens by Agarax (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:57AM3 replies beneath your current threshold. Estonian e-voting a glowing success (Score:4, Funny) by IgnoramusMaximus (692000) on Tuesday October 18, @08:15PM (#13822768) Estonian authorities have confirmed that the e-voting was a complete success and their faith in this 21st century solution was completely justified."It was flawless", the Chief Election Commissioner said, and in apparent attempt to gloat over his critics, who were loudly warning of problems, he added: "And it proves that contrary to what those feeble Doomsayers were saying, we should not fear new technology, we should embrace it because it is new, shiny and made in America!".In related news, some confusion persists of the proper procedure of swearing the new Estonian President, Barney "The Pink" Dinosaur, and his vice-president Wet Noodle, both of the party "All Your Base Belong To Us". Additional complications for the traditionalists is the suprising new discoverery at the polls that apparently most Estonians turned out to be of the Jedi religion. [ Reply to This Some of the best things come from Estonia (Score:1, Interesting) by MightyMait (787428) on Tuesday October 18, @08:15PM (#13822774) (Last Journal: Friday June 11, @02:41PM) Estonia is the country that gave us KaZaa (or at least the programmers who wrote the code). As for security of on-line elections vs. paper elections--bah!! I've never had to show any form of identification when I've voted (here in the U.S.). Identity verification is done via signature (and how closely do you think each signature is examined?). Besides there's all sorts of monkey business that could go on behind the scenes (just how many elections monitors are there?).What *really* scares me is proprietary electronic voting machines from companies owned by high-profile Republicans. [ Reply to ThisRe:Some of the best things come from Estonia by YrWrstNtmr (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:16PMRe:Some of the best things come from Estonia by Mattwolf7 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:02PM I misread the post (Score:2) by JRHelgeson (576325) on Tuesday October 18, @08:29PM (#13822859) (Last Journal: Sunday October 19, @05:54PM) At first I thought it said Elbonia successfully had internet voting. I was actually amazed that the pointy-haired boss didn't manage to screw it all up and I eagerly awaited the cartoon panels that detailed Dilbert's success in deploying the systems...Then I re-read the /. post...Oh, Estonia, you mean it happened in the real world? Bah, no big deal. [ Reply to This Paperless voting (Score:2) by sicking (589500) on Tuesday October 18, @09:42PM (#13823321) How can this be any better then a paperless voting mashine that has gotten a lot of bad press in here lately? The fact that it is based on linux doesn't help one bit unless people can actually verify what code are running on the servers during the election. Blackbox voting is blackbox voting, no matter what anyone claims is in the box. [ Reply to This Eventually voting will be done online... (Score:2) by mcguyver (589810) on Tuesday October 18, @09:45PM (#13823334) Complications like fraud will be worked out in time. Instead of downplaying internet voting as something that is not possible we should be looking at what's needs to be done to make it happen...pointing out the obvious here on an internet discussion but oh well. [ Reply to This Judging E-Voting (Score:2) by EMIce (30092) on Tuesday October 18, @09:52PM (#13823371) (http://www.golden-dumpling.org/) The success of an e-vote is hard to verify, and a poorly designed system - like many of those used in the US - makes it fairly trivial to alter even a presidential election through tampering. With no far reaching conspiracies required either, just a few key municipalities in Ohio would need to manipulated. This would be ridiculously easy for a few corrupt local election officials, who through diebold's interface can alter tallies without an audit log. This is a built in feature for making "corrections" and incorporating things like absentee votes of course. There is so much reward involved that the potential abuse here is astronomical.Sound ridiculous?Yeah, I know. So while your at it, please check out this bill [govtrack.us] and write your representatives about it. Some republicans are already poo-pooing these much needed reforms and they need more momentum. [ Reply to ThisRe:Judging E-Voting by EMIce (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:14AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. US elections officials pose the question (Score:1) by scottc229 (879775) on Tuesday October 18, @10:11PM (#13823470) (http://www.yale.edu/chess) This linux that they ran it on, does Diebold make that? [ Reply to This Did the candidates get to nominate scrutineers? (Score:2) by lpontiac (173839) on Tuesday October 18, @10:42PM (#13823623) Did the candidates get to nominate scrutineers to monitor the election process, and what methods were those scrutineers able to employ? [ Reply to This