Mark Brunelli, News Editor writes "Outspoken IT consultant John H. Terpstra believes that Microsoft and electronics manufacturers are working together to hinder the adoption of Linux on the desktop. In a three part series, he tells a story about how two guys trying to buy Linux desktops found they were overpriced, and lacked certain tools. He then describes how Microsoft uses its considerable resources and the law to create such roadblocks. (Part 2, Part 3)" Stopping Linux Desktop Adoption Sabotage Log in/Create an Account | Top | 457 comments (Spill at 50!) | Index Only | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 457 comments 0: 445 comments 1: 346 comments 2: 250 comments 3: 51 comments 4: 24 comments 5: 16 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Not Forever (Score:4, Insightful) by gregbains (890793) <greg_bainsNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Tuesday October 18, @05:29PM (#13821172) (http://www.bains007.co.uk/) Theres only so much you can push people. Windows XP did not deliver what people thought it would and Vista won't achieve what it set out to do, and updates take too long coming. Many people I know are or will switch to Linux in the near future because it makes more sense in the long run.Keep pushing people and they will try something else, look at Firefox or Opera.All it takes is a little piece of information to hit the public and people will begin to learn more about it, and adopt it. [ Reply to ThisRe:Not Forever by Billly Gates (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:43PMRe:Not Forever by Vancorps (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:52PM Re:Not Forever (Score:5, Insightful) by geomon (78680) on Tuesday October 18, @06:23PM (#13821765) (http://www.cato.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday April 17, @02:12AM) "Web services are the future so this OS importance issue..."In which case, Microsoft wins by default. With the largest installed userbase, they will still benefit from a full migration to web services. You will still need an OS to get to the internet regardless of whether everything is web-based.The push for Linux will only come from the education market. When more children grow up in a UNIX-based world, then their preference will drive their purchase. It worked for Apple and Microsoft. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Not Forever by RoLi (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:40PM Re:Not Forever (Score:4, Interesting) by Vancorps (746090) on Tuesday October 18, @07:42PM (#13822519) I fail to see how web services in any way forced people to go with Windows. I just created a web based Auction application that works whether your are on OS X, any distro of Linux, my XBox, and yeah, most any version of Windows too.My point is that web apps free the user from the OS. The OS is still needed and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. The OS however becomes irrelevent when your cell phone can open a web based app just like a desktop with Windows can. As for you second statement I believe you are again incorrect. Colleges are where Unix was more or less born. That didn't result in a mass migration. In fact the opposite happened at the same time most probably due to hardware expenses. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Not Forever by geomon (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:27PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:Not Forever (Score:4, Insightful) by westlake (615356) on Tuesday October 18, @09:38PM (#13823298) When more children grow up in a UNIX-based world, then their preference will drive their purchase. It worked for Apple and Microsoft. My niece began with XP at age four. Windows is in her home and in her hand every day. Something she can touch. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Not Forever by geomon (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @10:29PMRe:Not Forever by Burz (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:45PMRe:Not Forever by burnin1965 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:43PMRe:Not Forever by geomon (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:24PMRe:Not Forever by quanticle (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:32PMRe:Not Forever by geomon (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:24PM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Re:Not Forever (Score:4, Insightful) by kubevubin (906716) on Tuesday October 18, @06:31PM (#13821851) (http://www.kevinski.com/) For many, Vista will be the OS that fixes their problems. I've tried several times (without luck) to switch to Linux, but what would typically be a simple task in Windows (i.e. installing video card drivers) becomes an exercise in frustration in Linux.Now, before you inevitably mod me down as a troll, hear me out...You know what the #1 thing is that's working against Linux adoption? Its open nature. Yes, it's fantastic that everyone and their mother can potentially modify it to their liking, but how many different distros are there, and how many of those distros can you typically find easy-to-install driver/software packages for?Go ahead, I know you want to say how easy it is to install drivers/software in certain distros, but therein lies the problem: There's more than one freaking distro. And you know, the full-auto process of installing software can do more harm than good. For instance, installing Opera didn't result in a shortcut appearing for the application on my Desktop in Xandros, so I had to conduct a search to track down the executable for Opera in that mess of directories. At the very least, most Windows installers at least show you the path upfront.I don't doubt that Microsoft would like to slow the Linux adoption rate. However, claiming that they're responsible for it not taking off amongst the mainstream is complete BS. If Linux users could truly unite and create a single UI that wasn't so unwieldy, I feel that Linux's market share could very well pick up. As is, no, it's completely ridiculous having to sift through so many distros.And for something that's supposed to be free, I find it quite amusing how many distros' developers end up devising some under-handed method to charge for their work. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Not Forever by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:19PMRe:Not Forever by SoSueMe (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:32PMRe:Not Forever by kubevubin (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @09:06PMRe:Not Forever by lpcustom (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:46PMRe:Not Forever by rtb61 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:22PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Not Forever by Master of Transhuman (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @09:26PMRe:Not Forever by kubevubin (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @10:07PMRe:Not Forever by Master of Transhuman (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @11:00PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.RE: Not Forever by I'm Don Giovanni (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:54PMRe: Not Forever by einhverfr (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:58PMRe: Not Forever by Ice Station Zebra (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:58PMRe: Not Forever by jacksonj04 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:21PMRe: Not Forever by biojayc (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:25PMRe: Not Forever by SoSueMe (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:39PMRe: Not Forever by RoboPimp_3000 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:42PMRe: Not Forever by Hal_Porter (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:27PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re: Not Forever by Drishmung (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:23PMRe: Not Forever by ncc74656 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:47PMRe:Not Forever by westlake (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @06:52PMRe:Not Forever by gregbains (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:57PMRe:Not Forever by westlake (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:25PMRe:Not Forever by Master of Transhuman (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:33PMRe:Not Forever by Master of Transhuman (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:39PMgood idea by zogger (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:57PMRe:Not Forever by LiquidCoooled (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @07:18PMRe:Not Forever by Hal_Porter (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:54PMRe:Sorry bud but Firefox ain't what it used to be by laughingcoyote (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:08PMRe:Sorry bud but Firefox ain't what it used to be by sigloiv (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:40PMRe:Sorry bud but Firefox ain't what it used to be by yppiz (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:37PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Sorry bud but Firefox ain't what it used to be by jp10558 (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:15AMRe:Not Forever by irablum (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:31PMRe:Not Forever by Taladar (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:26PMWell put! by iamacat (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:11PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.2 replies beneath your current threshold.6 replies beneath your current threshold.Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:29PMNeeds update by Spy der Mann (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:33PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by lightspawn (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:39PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by dustinc20 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:46PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by Toba82 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:59PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by BeBoxer (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:36PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by Toba82 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:46PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by colenski (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:04PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by colenski (Score:1) Wednesday October 19, @12:26AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by ettlz (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:45PMRe:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by QCompson (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:59PMI think he's real. by Grendel Drago (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:36AM3 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Sure, blame someone else - typical zealots by Vario (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:44PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.1 reply beneath your current threshold. Genius (Score:5, Funny) by suso (153703) * on Tuesday October 18, @05:29PM (#13821181) (http://suso.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 09, @01:03AM) "Outspoken IT consultant John H. Terpstra believes that Microsoft and electronics manufacturers are working together to hinder the adoption of Linux on the desktopWow, this guy is a genius for his insight. I really should read what he has to say now. [ Reply to This Re:Genius? Who knows. Smart experienced guy? Yes. (Score:5, Informative) by UnderScan (470605) <jjp6893&netscape,net> on Tuesday October 18, @05:40PM (#13821308) That opening line was written by the editor of the piece. John Terpstra [phptr.com] is a good author and more importantly, a long time contributor to FOSS, namely samba. See "Samba-3 by Example: Practical Exercises to Successful Deployment" [phptr.com]. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Genius? Who knows. Smart experienced guy? Yes. by suso (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:09PMRe:Genius? Who knows. Smart experienced guy? Yes. by johansalk (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:11PMOne of those reasons is partially correct. by Medievalist (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:41PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Genius by vdboor (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:55PMIn other news... by Dolda2000 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:44PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.So your company is being overcharged to fail? by gelfling (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:29PMRe:So your company is being overcharged to fail? by Billly Gates (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:47PMya sounds about right by RLiegh (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:30PMRe Outlawing the GPL by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:09PMRe:ya sounds about right by chiok (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:56PMRe:ya sounds about right by timeOday (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:48PMIt's just 2 guys but.. by js3 (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:31PMRe:It's just 2 guys but.. by Overly Critical Guy (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @06:10PMRe:It's just 2 guys but.. by Pneuma ROCKS (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:35PMRe:It's just 2 guys but.. by timeOday (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:45PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Missed something... by coastin (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:31PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:5, Interesting) by KiltedKnight (171132) * on Tuesday October 18, @05:32PM (#13821223) (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Monday October 17, @07:03PM) When I recently went to purchase a laptop from HP Shopping, because I wanted a 64-bit laptop and they were one of the few actually offering it at lower prices, I ended up having all kinds of grief, having an old-fashioned "fuck you" fight with the customer service desk.It went something like this...I started customizing the zv6000 laptop, choosing XP Home, knowing that I probably wouldn't get reasonable tech support without having it installed (never mind that there wasn't an option to not get it). As I got to the end, I looked around for a way to request custom partitioning of the hard drive. No dice. So I cancelled the order and wrote to HP Shopping and asked if they could do a custom partitioning job because I wanted to create a dual-boot system.The response I got was that they couldn't do it and that they were sorry the web site didn't suit my needs.I responded by asking if they could sell me a blank laptop and provide the installation media on the side, since it was included, and I didn't feel like trying to reinstall the recovery partition for Windows. This is why you don't get installation media... they put it all on a partition on the hard drive that only the Windows installer can use.Their reply was that they were contractually obligated to sell the laptop with the latest version of Windows installed.So I told them that they just lost a sale because of their contractual obligations, and that I would take my money elsewhere.So they replied again with how they were sorry that the website didn't suit my needs and that they would notify the appropriate people.Now they've pushed my buttons... so I tell them that this is not about a web site, it's about a person sitting there running an FDISK command and watching the install take place instead of just using a ghosting program. I also tell them that I would've been willing to wait an extra couple of weeks, knowing I was asking for a truly customized job.In the end, I did get an HP laptop, but got it from CompUSA. I got the HP L2000, and for about $40, the tech desk people there were able to do the customized partitioning job for me, reinstall the version of Windows that came with it, and leave me with blank, unformatted partitions to use for Fedora Core 4 x86_64. The tech guys there knew exactly what I wanted to do, understood it, and thought it was really cool. Yes, I need ndiswrappers to get the wireless card to work, and I have to download a driver for the ATI graphics card in there (both are available via a yum archive at livna.org).Now if only we could get Macromedia to release a 64-bit version of the flash player and Sun to do a 64-bit verison of Java... (yes, I know about the OSS alternatives... doesn't change the fact that they need to do it). [ Reply to This Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:5, Interesting) by Chanc_Gorkon (94133) <jmclaug3@GINSBER ... r.com minus poet> on Tuesday October 18, @05:48PM (#13821404) You have to understand that for HP to hire a guy that is knowledgable enough (not that it takes much) costs HP money in both the position as well as training costs. Look, I like Linux as much as the next guy, but is it worth the extra money to HP for doing your custom partitioning?? No it isn't. Is it worth HP's money and time to do a custom job on your laptop? No, they can't do thatas they would be bombarded with many requests to do the same thing.Is HP right for not including REAL Windows install disks?? NO. HP should realize....hard disks fail. To a regular AOL/Joe Sixpack type of user, mailing the laptop back to HP or taking it to a service center is perfectly acceptable when replacing a hard disk. To us, we look on it as a opportunity to upgrade the feeble disk it came with. In any case, HP and many other manufacturers SHOULD ship REAL install media....not this crap that accesses a windows recovery partition. They should also stop shipping SPYWARE with there machine as well.HP's website itself works FINE in Firefox. The website itself is Linux friendly. Not being able to ship you a custom solution should not be a judgement of thier site. Face it....Windows DOES have the marketshare. If you don't like the website that they make you use, then you are free to go to a dealer that IS able to satisfy you. Being mad at them because they won't do your custom job is stupid. Finding a manufacturer that will do whaty you want and supporting them rather then HP is the sure fire way to get HP to change thier ways. What you did by buying from them anyway is VALIDATE thier planning! If a company can't do what I want, I tell them to pound sand. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by KiltedKnight (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:14PM2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by NatteringNabob (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:52PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by sweetnjguy29 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:22PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by NatteringNabob (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:29PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by Billly Gates (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:52PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by jshaped (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:54PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by Junior J. Junior III (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @06:03PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by Lehk228 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:13PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by KiltedKnight (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:17PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by HampiRocks (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:16PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by bigbadwlf (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:18PM Re:HP Website not all that linux-friendly (Score:4, Insightful) by poot_rootbeer (188613) on Tuesday October 18, @06:20PM (#13821738) By ultimately giving your money to HP anyway, you truly showed them how much it matters whether they offer custom build options for power users like yourself.Not at all. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by Elshar (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:30PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by KiltedKnight (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:50PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by Blakey Rat (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:20PMMaking room by dbcad7 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:40PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by jitterysquid (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:08PMRe:HP Website not all that linux-friendly by KiltedKnight (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:01PMYeah, right. by DJCacophony (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:29PMRe:Yeah, right. by n4t3 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @09:40PMRe:Yeah, right. by rmm4pi8 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:14PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.4 replies beneath your current threshold.There's sabotage alright by saskboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:33PMRe:There's sabotage alright by KiltedKnight (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:43PMHP has a history of making so-so boxes by HBI (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:46PMRe:HP has a history of making so-so boxes by The Bungi (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:10PMRe:There's sabotage alright by xrayspx (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:31PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Desktop Linux by sedyn (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:33PMRe:Desktop Linux by Ucklak (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:42PMRe:Desktop Linux by dknj (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:47PMRe:Desktop Linux by Ucklak (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:12PMRe:Desktop Linux by Fred_A (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:17PMRe:Desktop Linux by WilliamSChips (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:57PMRe:Desktop Linux by tsa (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:28AMRe:Desktop Linux by Leiterfluid (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:07PMRe:Desktop Linux by bladesjester (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:30PMRe:Desktop Linux by dknj (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:54PMRe:Desktop Linux by bladesjester (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:06PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Desktop Linux by Pantero Blanco (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:40PMRe:Desktop Linux by bubkus_jones (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:32PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Why do we still post this garbage? (Score:5, Interesting) by eison (56778) <{pkteison} {at} {hotmail.com}> on Tuesday October 18, @05:34PM (#13821245) "Part 2", the "what MS is doing to stop Linux" part, points out obvious facts (can't buy Linux computers in major retailers), asks why, and then postulates no decent answers. We should all ask, why does it suggest no decent answers? Is it perhaps because the most likely answer, that retail stores would lose money selling Linux systems due to higher difficulty of making the sale, higher support costs, higher return rates, and lower volume? Or is it perhaps because there is a global conspiracy that stores take against profitable actions?The author says we should believe: "Obviously, there are forces at work in the IT industry that cause retailers to choose not to participate in being more profitable." Right. Global conspiracy, obvious. Try again. The only thing that is really obvious is that the course of action he is suggesting (selling Linux systems in mass market brick and mortar retailers) is deemed unprofitable for these stores.Sure, Walmart sells Linux. But only online, not brick and mortar. [ Reply to This Re:Why do we still post this garbage? (Score:5, Insightful) by clodney (778910) on Tuesday October 18, @05:52PM (#13821437) The article was sensationalist and attributed to malice and conspiracy what is best explained by profit motive.The major electronic retailers function as gatekeepers. There are thousands of products out there that they don't put on their shelves, so much so that simply getting a product on the shelf at Best Buy is a huge accomplishment for a small hardware or software vendor.The primary issue is one of space and inventory turns. Best Buy expects that every foot of shelf space bring in some amount of revenue, and they stock products that will maximize that revenue. A product that only moves 5 copies a month will always lose out to one that moves 5 a day.Computers with preloaded software take up a lot of space. I suspect that most models don't even give you a choice of XP Home or XP Pro, and XP Pro is far more popular than Linux. But every different SKU to stock means additional inventory headaches, so only the most popular choices are going to be in stock.Now consider some of the secondary factors. People buying a PC with Linux are going to be less likely to buy additional software. They arguably don't need things like Spyware or Virus products, and much of what they want is OSS and available for free anyway. So the chances for upsell are greatly reduced, and follow on sales are going to be less.Retailers will offer Linux boxes if the numbers justify it. Show them a way to make a buck and they will be all over it. But at the moment they don't feel it is profitable to do so. No grand conspiracy, just economics. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by harrkev (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:12PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by T-Ranger (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:14PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by kerrle (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:43PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by Arandir (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:14PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by kindbud (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:19PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by lixee (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:26PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by ranton (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:38PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by fcichy (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:25PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by grcumb (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:55PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by Chanc_Gorkon (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:20PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Why do we still post this garbage? by shmlco (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:03PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by shmlco (Score:2) Wednesday October 19, @12:08AM2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Why do we still post this garbage? by mcrbids (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:35PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by lspd (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:36PMRe drivers, it's a catch-22 by quentin_quayle (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:44PMRe:Why do we still post this garbage? by gnu-user (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:17PM3 replies beneath your current threshold. Short version of this story (Score:5, Insightful) by glomph (2644) on Tuesday October 18, @05:36PM (#13821268) (http://www.antiwar.com/casualties/ | Last Journal: Sunday January 30, @12:53PM) 1. Forced sale of MS stuff still exists. Wow, what a surprise.2. Before buying hardware, especially laptops, spend an hour googling or otherwise studying what IS supported. The morons in the story buy stuff and then find out compatibility. Fuckin' DUH! [ Reply to This Re:Short version of this story (Score:5, Insightful) by kashani (2011) <kashani.badapple@net> on Tuesday October 18, @05:47PM (#13821389) (http://www.badapple.net/ | Last Journal: Thursday February 19, @06:28PM) Fucking duh is the entire point of the story. Why as a Linux user do I have to Google for an hour and then hope I can do the proper chicken sacrifice to make the drivers work? The OSS world has shown it can make kickass databases, web servers, kernels, mail servers, languages, etc, but we still can't get drivers installed. I'm likely to agree with the author that there are roadblocks not of our making that is causing this.kashani [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Short version of this story by glomph (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:54PM Re:Short version of this story (Score:5, Insightful) by bladesjester (774793) <slashdot&jameshollingshead,com> on Tuesday October 18, @06:51PM (#13822054) (http://www.jameshollingshead.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 02, @02:40AM) He doesn't miss the point. In fact, he hits it on the head. You should not have to wonder wether all of the componants are going to play with your OS. I remember doing that with windows...back in the mid 90's.I'm not placing blame for it, and, indeed it's getting a lot easier to throw it on just about everything now. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be an issue to run a modern operating system on modern comodity hardware and researching "computer stuff" is something that your average pc user is not going to do, and in many cases isn't really capable of doing especially since most people only use their computers for email and the web.I believe Linux is ready for much more buisness use, but until my mother can deal with it easily, it won't be ready for mainstream home desktop use.disclaimer: I am the editor of a technical and open source magazine, a software developer, and have been a network analyst. My views are my own and not necessarily those of my employers or clients (past or present). In all fairness, I use Linux and even help others switch, but I realize that there are currently some limitations for its widespread home use. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Short version of this story by Trelane (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:43PMRe:Short version of this story by elronxenu (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:48PMRe:Short version of this story by bladesjester (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:34PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Short version of this story by The Bungi (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:02PMRe:Short version of this story by jc42 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:27PMRe:Short version of this story by The Bungi (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:35PMRe:Short version of this story by benow (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:42PMFree databases by Markus Registrada (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:18PMRe:Short version of this story by geekee (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @06:27PMRe:Short version of this story by bortizc (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:27PMDon't Google then... by carlmenezes (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:26PMRe:Short version of this story by killjoe (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @09:28PMRe:Short version of this story by oliverthered (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:35PM3 replies beneath your current threshold.Come up with some real reasons... by No Salvation (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @05:37PMYes and No by irenaeous (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:54PMRe:Come up with some real reasons... by FST777 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:03PMRe:Come up with some real reasons... by Hosiah (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:29PMOf couse... by jamesgamble (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @05:41PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Complaints (Score:4, Informative) by Tribbin (565963) on Tuesday October 18, @05:44PM (#13821350) (http://tribbin.no-ip.org/) People for who I installed linux, say the following is missing:Good MSN with all smileys, filetransfer, videochat.Support for all streaming media in your webbrowser.All multimedia files supported (without having to add (unofficial) repositories to have support for win32codecs and such).Oh yeah, for the transition, full NTFS writing support.Apart from that, my friends, mother, sister and girlfriend really like linux. [ Reply to ThisRe:Complaints by bersl2 (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @06:12PMRe:Complaints by PCM2 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:30PMRe:Complaints by bersl2 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:17PMRe:Complaints by slavemowgli (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:34PMRe:Complaints by Ucklak (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:21PMRe:Complaints by kerrle (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:50PMRe:Complaints by Elshar (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:35PMRe:Complaints by NeoSkandranon (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:40PMRe:Complaints by MP3Chuck (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:14PMProprietary codecs are a risk. by jbn-o (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:14PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Complaints by Aequo (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:42PMRe:Complaints by Tribbin (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @07:55PMRe:Complaints by Nimey (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:50PMRe:Complaints by RzUpAnmsCwrds (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:43PMRe:Complaints by timbo234 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @11:53PMRe:Complaints by Liam Slider (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:46PMRe:Complaints by rjstanford (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:17PMRe:Complaints by cdegroot (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:47PMRe:Complaints by braindead (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:24PMRe:Complaints by Tribbin (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:32PMRe:Complaints by dtfinch (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:08PMRe:Complaints by Tribbin (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:26PMRe:Complaints by dtfinch (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @08:42PMFine time for learning how the world really works. by jbn-o (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:19PMRe:Complaints by Freexe (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:44PM3 replies beneath your current threshold.More a fault of the limited userbase by gilesjuk (Score:3) Tuesday October 18, @05:48PMRe:More a fault of the limited userbase by rmayes100 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:18PM FUD alert! BullShit! (Score:5, Informative) by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday October 18, @05:51PM (#13821422) It's fud fud fud fud. Consperiacy bullshit, I figure.I LOVE Linux. Long time Debian user, I know that I simply couldn't use computers and be as happy with them if I was stuck with only choosing Windows and propriatory applications.I am a GNU, Free Software, ra-ra-ra type of guy. I probably seem like a nut to many people.But I don't beleive that it's a consperiacy against Linux. I beleive it's just complacency, laziness, apathy, and other crap like that.It's not that they care and conspire, it's that they don't give a shit and MS nudges here and there very rarely.Hardware manufacturers work their asses off making sure the everything works with Windows well. They generally dont' do jack shit about Linux because it doesn't contribute to their bottom line. (it could if they felt like it. No linux support = no Linux-related money = no reason to support linux = no linux support, etc etc etc.)This is why it's important to support hardware manufacturers that support Linux. Stuff like Ralink-using Wifi cards that use the rt2500 and related chipsets. http://rt2x00.serialmonkey.com/wiki/index.php/Main _Page [serialmonkey.com]And specificly requesting Linux support is the only way to go. Seriously. Buying random hardware and expecting it to work in Linux or expecting that your Dell laptop will work 'just because' is foolish.This guy is spreading fud. There are certainly hardware companies that dislike the idea of free software. They dislike having to tell end-users how to use the hardware or releasing minimal REAL documentation on the hardware. Well then, fuck them. Don't buy their shit and if you do don't cry when you can't get it to work with ndiswrapper.PS. Don't buy wifi cards with Conextent, Broadcom, Texas Instruments using chipsets. Avoid them like the plague. Modern 802.11g that work in Linux well are Intel Wifi setups and Ralink rt2x00 based chipsets. Intel 'Sonoma' platform with Intel Video and Intel wifi should work well in a modern Linux setup. Avoid ATI and Nvidia if you can, and if you can't and need the 3d horsepower always choose Nvidia.What Linux needs for the 'average' user however is pre-installed support from a major manufacturer. The most likely canidate would be HP right now, but it seems to me that it's going to take a relative unkown to realy break through and start making buckets of money from this sort of thing. Maybe a successfull company that produces hardware specialized for Linux clustering or server work can step up to the bat and do it. (not talking about IBM.)It is certainly possible to get a very nice computer for inexpensive that will work in Linux without having to resort to e-crappo hardware to make it cheap. [ Reply to ThisRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by jonfelder (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:25PMMonopoly Conviction by Tony (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:22PMRe:Monopoly Conviction by jonfelder (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:32PMRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by giorgiofr (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:36PMRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by Ann Coulter (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:53PMRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by Ugly American (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @08:16PMRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by slashflood (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @07:09PMRe:FUD alert! BullShit! by detour207 (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @07:50PMWho wrote this article? by AlexMax2742 (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:11PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Taken from Murphy's (Score:4, Insightful) by gmuslera (3436) <gmuslera&gmail,com> on Tuesday October 18, @05:52PM (#13821434) (Last Journal: Wednesday April 13, @12:12AM) "Never attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by stupidity" [ Reply to ThisRe:Taken from Murphy's by grcumb (Score:1) Tuesday October 18, @06:24PMRe:Taken from Murphy's by Liam Slider (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @06:50PMRe:Taken from Murphy's by supersudssoaker (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @09:32PMRe:Taken from Murphy's by Mister Transistor (Score:2) Tuesday October 18, @10:09PM