TecnaDigit writes "Today, after sitting on the bill for nearly a month and constant political pressure, Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger signed Assembly Bill 1179, the bill that would prohibit the sale and rentals of violent video games to minors. Again, the Entertainment Software Ratings Board and the Video Software Dealers Association (VSDA) are challenging the bill. According the the VSDA, the bill is faulty in that a game is decided whether or not it is 'violent' by juries, and different juries could have different opinions on what is defined as 'violent'." Commentary on GamerGod. California Passes Violent Games Bill Log in/Create an Account | Top | 113 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 113 comments 0: 109 comments 1: 86 comments 2: 61 comments 3: 27 comments 4: 15 comments 5: 9 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity (Score:5, Insightful) by technoextreme (885694) on Sunday October 09, @01:48PM (#13751274) Let the parents decide what is too violent and what isn't and be done with the whole thing. If parents cared then we would not be in this whole entire mess. [ Reply to This Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity (Score:5, Insightful) by Coneasfast (690509) on Sunday October 09, @01:51PM (#13751287) Let the parents decide what is too violent and what isn't and be done with the whole thing. If parents cared then we would not be in this whole entire mess.what mess are we in? are we still assuming that violent video games lead to violent behaviour in real-life? we've been over this argument a dozen times. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by technoextreme (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @01:53PM Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity (Score:5, Funny) by Meagermanx (768421) on Sunday October 09, @02:12PM (#13751382) Have you seen this Mario dude? He kills these little mushrooms and turtles by smashing them with punches, kicks, and landing on their heads. He hits stuff with hammers and burns his enemies with the fireballs he throws.The game is also racist. ALL Goombas are evil, ALL koopas are evil, and ALL of bowsers children are automatically evil. What happened to judging people on the content of their character? Is this the kind of game you would want your 12 year old playing? Are we going to let some punk kid deal this to our children from orders handed down from an evil corporation called "EBGames", it's true intentions hidden behind a veil of technical legality? Gentlemen, I propose a witch hunt. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Shakrai (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:53PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Genevish (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:57PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Shakrai (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:00PM2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by rdoger6424 (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:49PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Mozk (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:56PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by keraneuology (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:13PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Shakrai (Score:3)Sunday October 09, @02:47PM5 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Steel Grey Monk (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @01:55PM Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity (Score:4, Interesting) by Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) on Sunday October 09, @02:03PM (#13751344) If parents cared then we would not be in this whole entire mess.Which is precisely the point. Too many parents don't care. Most of them do, but there is a minority that's way too anarchic with their children. I don't have much of a problem with organized anarchy, but it doesn't really work for raising children.The real solution would be to find the parents that don't..well..parent, turn the kids over to child protecive services and then a loving adoptive family, and castrate the parents. (Hopefully if you catch the parents while the child is young enough, it won't be too traumatic.) And then monitor the child in case the bad parenting is genetic.The very existence of the need for a government agency of child protection is proof that there are parents who don't parent. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by technoextreme (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:29PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Shakrai (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:10PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by compjinx (Score:3)Sunday October 09, @02:10PMThat's what the law is for...sadly. by ari_j (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:19PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by bigtrike (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:20PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by Comatose51 (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:40PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by linzeal (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @03:21PMRe:Ackkk I hate freaking subjectivity by The_Quinn (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @03:22PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Why, oh why.... (Score:3, Insightful) by zappepcs (820751) on Sunday October 09, @01:50PM (#13751278) (http://www.asomaworld.net/zinn | Last Journal: Tuesday October 04, @08:28PM) Do we need legislation to set up ratings schemes? Once its rated, selling to minors is illegal already.No matter how much law is enacted, they still won't be able to enforce the law with anything that approaches what people envision. Grandmothers and family members will still buy games and movies for kids when they shouldn't....What a gigantic waste of time and money... pfft! [ Reply to ThisRe:Why, oh why.... by soft_guy (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @01:58PMRe:Why, oh why.... by NoMercy (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:29PMRe:Why, oh why.... by JP205 (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:34PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Define irony (Score:5, Insightful) by Pluvius (734915) <ploov@NosPam.charter.net> on Sunday October 09, @01:52PM (#13751288) (Last Journal: Friday October 07, @10:22PM) A man best known for starring in violent movies that mostly appeal to adolescents signs a bill prohibiting the sale of violent video games to adolescents.Rob [ Reply to ThisRe:Define irony by johnjaydk (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @01:58PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:Define irony (Score:5, Funny) by Geoffreyerffoeg (729040) on Sunday October 09, @01:59PM (#13751328) Heh. The Terminator just terminated terminating. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Define irony by DigiShaman (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:41PMRe:Define irony by iDaZe (Score:3)Sunday October 09, @02:04PMRe:Define irony by Pluvius (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:07PMHe doesn't deserve a break. by CyricZ (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:27PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Define irony by alan_dershowitz (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:45PMRe:Define irony by Pluvius (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:05PM Where in the world is Larry Flynt? (Score:1) by beheaderaswp (549877) * on Sunday October 09, @01:55PM (#13751305) How the heck do you define what is too violent?We cannot even define "pornography" in a global sense- except by an ill defined "community standard".CDA on the internet, Patriot Act in the USA, and California on Crack. [ Reply to This Won't someone think of the children? (Score:3, Insightful) by Raleel (30913) on Sunday October 09, @01:55PM (#13751308) Like, the parents perhaps... [ Reply to This Welcome to the jury system! (Score:4, Funny) by Entropius (188861) on Sunday October 09, @01:55PM (#13751310) They're complaining that juries give inconsistent results?That a jury might rule one way one time, and another way the next?These guys need to start submitting Slashdot stories. They're experts at old news. [ Reply to ThisRe:Welcome to the jury system! by Dachannien (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:24PM juries on trial (Score:5, Insightful) by moviepig.com (745183) on Sunday October 09, @01:56PM (#13751313) (http://www.moviepig.com/) According to the VSDA, [a game's violence] is decided] by juries, and different juries could have different opinions on what is defined as 'violent'.Indeed. Although we routinely use juries to decide matters of actual life or death, using them to judge video-game violence is beyond their competence... [ Reply to ThisRe:juries on trial by RexRhino (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:38PMRe:juries on trial by Galvatron (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:53PMRe:juries on trial by hunterx11 (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:24PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. I just have to say... (Score:1, Funny) by imboboage0 (876812) on Sunday October 09, @01:56PM (#13751314) (ftp://darkfiles.servebeer.com) H0w wi11 12 y3@r 01ds be 1337 at CS if th3y @r3n'7 @110w3d t0 p14y i7? [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Violent Games... sigh (Score:5, Funny) by Kickboy12 (913888) on Sunday October 09, @01:58PM (#13751318) That's right, violent games make violent people, and Tiger Woods PGA Tour makes professional golfers. [ Reply to ThisRe:Violent Games... sigh by Turn-X Alphonse (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:25PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.1 reply beneath your current threshold. Free? (Score:1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09, @01:58PM (#13751320) So it is illegal to sell or rent. What if I give them away for free? I am going to make them obscene games as well so go ahead and ban that Kalifornia! [ Reply to This Last time I checked, (Score:4, Informative) by DJCacophony (832334) <cacophony@syncre ... g minus math_god> on Sunday October 09, @01:58PM (#13751321) (http://www.syncreate.org/) California, along with the rest of the U.S. already has a system like this in place. It's called the ESRB ratings system. M (mature)-rated games can only be sold to people 17 and older, and AO (adults only)-rated games can only be sold to 18 and older. http://www.esrb.org/ [ Reply to ThisRe:Last time I checked, by nekojin (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:04PMRe:Last time I checked, by Mnemia (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:06PM Please (Score:1) by isaf (912891) on Sunday October 09, @01:59PM (#13751329) Think of the children. [typepad.com] [ Reply to This The laws punish HOMEOWNERS not just Retail!!! BAD! (Score:1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 09, @02:00PM (#13751331) The laws punish HOMEOWNERS not just retail!!! BAD!A mother or father of a home taht unwittingly allows a NEIGHBOR's kid to play GTA at their home can get the parents into criminal court!GREAT!Swell. Thats what just we need.... feuding neighbors. It almost makes me want to shoot a bullet into the head of my goddamn tattletale snitching neighbor, or burn down their house while they sleep.... oops i mean, can't we all just get along?Seriosuly though... these laws are not for retailers... they are to send PARENTS of cool kids to jail. Nobody but me seems to get it.You read it here first. [ Reply to ThisRe:The laws punish HOMEOWNERS not just Retail!!! B by Zeph (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:50PM Ignorant laws... (Score:3, Insightful) by macshome (818789) on Sunday October 09, @02:00PM (#13751332) (http://www.afp548.com/) I heard Schwarzenegger on the radio and he was saying that when he was an actor he felt that the ratings system kept kids from seeing violent content, and stating that games needed similar ratings.Um? Hello? You mean like the ratings system they have now? The one that is more granular that the MPAA system? With movies I get a general "R" rating. WIth games I get a breakdown of what that "M" is for, similar to the TV ratings system.So do the people who come up with this stuff simply not realize that there has been a game content rating system in place for YEARS now? If not, that's just woefully ignorant. [ Reply to This Ratings=good (Score:2, Interesting) by heiders (811021) on Sunday October 09, @02:01PM (#13751337) Since movies are rated for violence, why can't video games be? Movies don't have to make kids more violent to be controlled, but apparently games do. Same for sexual content, if you are going to put it in entertainment, expect it to be controlled.Parents don't want to watch every movie beforehand to see if it is suitable for their child, same goes for games. Rating is perfectly acceptable way to do it.For that matter, why don't people challenge movie ratings? The juries that rate movies are generally quite fair, can the game rating people not be fair? [ Reply to ThisRe:Ratings=good by Compenguin (Score:3)Sunday October 09, @02:33PMRe:Ratings=good by Zerathdune (Score:3)Sunday October 09, @02:35PMRe:Ratings=good by hunterx11 (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:26PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. What about sexuality? (Score:3, Interesting) by Ignorant Aardvark (632408) <cydeweys@ g m a i l.com> on Sunday October 09, @02:01PM (#13751338) (http://fyre.sytes.net:8007/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 06, @01:42PM) Does this bill only mention it being violent games that cannot be sold to minors? What about sexuality? If it doesn't mention sex - hooray! Finally a law that realizes that violence is worse than a normal human activity! [ Reply to ThisRe:What about sexuality? by Ignorant Aardvark (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @02:11PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Like every one else ... (Score:5, Informative) by SuperDuG (134989) <be@NOsPam.eclec.tk> on Sunday October 09, @02:05PM (#13751355) (http://www.eclec.tk/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 25, @04:37PM) This will get thrown out in court. These laws have been tried in Indiana, Missouri, and are now popping up in Illinois and California.The problem is, that there is already judicial precedence on the issue. Kendrick, Teri, et al. v. American Amusement Machine Association (docket no. 00-3643)Appeal: Cert. denied, Oct. 29, 2001. Issues: Does an Indianapolis, Ind., law against minors playing violent video games in video parlors violate the First Amendment? Summary: The ordinance forbids any operator of five or more video-game machines in one place to allow a minor unaccompanied by a parent, guardian, or other custodian to use "an amusement machine that is harmful to minors," requires appropriate warning signs, and requires that such machines be separated by a partition from the other machines in the location and that their viewing areas be concealed from persons who are on the other side of the partition. The U.S. Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that the ordinance does violate the rights of those under 18 years of age. Judge Posner wrote the decision. Decision: In denying the appeal, the U.S. Supreme Court makes no ruling on the merits of the law or the challenge to it. It merely means that the case could not get the minimum vote of four justices needed to hear the appeal. It also means that all similar laws in the jurisdiction of the Seventh Circuit Court of Appeals are void under that court's ruling. The above is from http://fact.trib.com/1st.01.02supr.html [trib.com] ... which is the denial of appeal when the Indianapolis city government was told their law was UNCONSTITUTIONAL.Also check here http://www.constitutioncenter.org/education/ForEdu cators/DiscussionStarters/BanningViolentVideoGames .shtml [constitutioncenter.org]and here http://culturalpolicy.uchicago.edu/conf2001/papers /walsh.html [uchicago.edu]So this is nothing new people. Ever since the ID brought us a world where we could literally kill and watch Nazi's die (even before that really). This has been an ongoing debate.The one thing you MUST realize is that this is not a bill being pushed by the Right-Wing Conservative Nut Jobs (granted they aren't really all against it), this is being pushed by DEMOCRATS. You want to know who hates freedom of speech? Hillary Clinton, after the Columbine murders ordered the surgeon general to find a link between school shooting tragedies and Quake. He found no conclusive link, but that didn't stop her, Lieberman, and the rest of the gang from going hog wild trying to censor video games. I lean left politically, but you can bet your ass I don't agree with censorship.Do what I did, I joined the EFF http://www.eff.org/ [eff.org] and joined the ACLU http://www.aclu.org/ [aclu.org] [ Reply to ThisRe:Like every one else ... by Zeph (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:43PMRe:Like every one else ... by meeotch (Score:1)Sunday October 09, @02:56PM Is it just me or... (Score:2) by suso (153703) * on Sunday October 09, @02:06PM (#13751358) (http://suso.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday March 09, @01:03AM) does it seem ironic and sureal that Arnold Schwarzenegger would be the one to sign this. I mean I know that he's the governor of Cali and all, but its just kinda ironic given his past roles in films. [ Reply to This Their objection is based on WHAT? (Score:2) by serutan (259622) <doug@geQUOTEekazon.com minus punct> on Sunday October 09, @02:09PM (#13751373) (http://www.geekazon.com/) ...a game is decided whether or not it is 'violent' by juries, and different juries could have different opinions on what is defined as 'violentSo apparently they object to it because it works the same way as our judicial system, which has been in place for hundreds of years. Does the phrase, "I have a cunning plan" spring to mind? [ Reply to ThisRe:Their objection is based on WHAT? by Mnemia (Score:2)Sunday October 09, @03:12PM Revolt! (Score:2) by dada21 (163177) * <{dada} {at} {dnginc.com}> on Sunday October 09, @02:10PM (#13751377) When the law becomes to tyrannical, revolt is allowed.How about an FPS game where the hero (a videogamer) starts an armed revolt against the California government?Rate it at M or AO, sell it to minors, challenge the law when you're arrested.Hmm... [ Reply to This Hmmm.... I'll have to alter my game design a bit.. (Score:4, Funny) by RyanFenton (230700) on Sunday October 09, @02:14PM (#13751393) Hmmm.... I think I'll have to alter my game design a bit...Let's see, yeah - the main character will now be carrying around an arsenal of flower-based projectile seeders. Upon hitting the target, these "horticulture tools" will instantly spread a rather red blotchy flower, possibly dripping petals. People will be so enamored by these lovely blooms that they will instantly transcend their ugly everyday lives, given enough flowers, and fall to the ground in pure bliss - possibly with a soul-shattering scream of freedom.Some people will be driving around in horticulture-tanks, which do massive seeding. Upon sufficient counter-seeding, these tanks will celebrate the wonder of the event by launching short-range non-violent fireworks, breaking down once they are satisfied that their flowery job has been complete.The flowers will be everywhere - breaking down walls, flooding innocent cities, carried by massive armies of rabid horticultualist monsters. Apparantly, many people in the game world will be flower-phobic until properly administered to with a variety of area-affect flower spreaders.Thanks, California, for providing the perspective we need to make games imaginative, once again!Ryan Fenton [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Way to go... (Score:1) by Dam's (921393) on Sunday October 09, @02:14PM (#13751395) Sex can't be shown to minors, but every adolescent watch pr0n...if kids (let's say > 15) can't buy games, they just download themThat's a stupid idea indeed... [ Reply to This Arnold Schwarzenegger ??? (Score:2) by Maljin Jolt (746064) on Sunday October 09, @02:18PM (#13751413) (Last Journal: Tuesday May 10, @08:26PM) A most admirable representant of violent culture...Now I shall view him to be just a simple political coward. [ Reply to This Picking on the games? (Score:1) by Xarius (691264) <xarius@gmai l . com> on Sunday October 09, @02:22PM (#13751424) Do they have corresponding violent movie and violent literature bills?Why not just make a Violent Media bill and stop jumping onto hot non^H^H^Hissues? [ Reply to This The perverse part (Score:3, Insightful) by kilodelta (843627) on Sunday October 09, @02:24PM (#13751433) Unfortunately this bill misses the mark.I know numerous parents that buy their kids any video game they ask for, regardless if it shows sex, violence, etc. Better to do that than suffer the wrath of a pissed off pre-teen.The abdication of parental responsibility in the last twenty years is astounding. But I'm part of the generation that spoils its kids but fortunately have no little curtain climbers.If I did have kids they'd sure as hell play by my rules though. [ Reply to This The price of complacency (Score:3, Insightful) by inkswamp (233692) on Sunday October 09, @02:24PM (#13751434) I'm honestly not sure who to side with.I abhor overreaching government intrusion into these kinds of things, but the video game industry has had ample time to step up to the plate on this. This has been an issue for over five years at this point. The film and tobacco industries self-regulate to some degree in this regard. There's no reason video game companies couldn't have done the socially responsible thing and headed this kind of thing off. It still may not be too late, but when money-grubbing video game companies and their corporate parents carry on like they don't give a shit, then I find myself extremely unsympathic to reactions against this kind of legislation. [ Reply to This Funny (Score:1) by October_30th (531777) on Sunday October 09, @02:25PM (#13751438) (http://slashdot.org/~October_30th/journal/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 09, @10:10AM) It's kind of funny that this subject gets so much time on /.If you're a minor, you've got no say in the matter. If you're an adult, why the hell should you care? If you want to buy a restricted game to your kid, go ahead and make his/her day. [ Reply to This Re:Funny (Score:5, Insightful) by MacFury (659201) <me@johnkr[ ]ich.com ['aml' in gap]> on Sunday October 09, @02:39PM (#13751503) (http://www.johnkramlich.com/) If you're a minor, you've got no say in the matter. If you're an adult, why the hell should you care?If you're not a slave, why should you care about slavery? Dangerous logic my friend. [ Reply to This | Parent