theodp writes to tell us that the National Academies, the nation's 'leading science advisory group', is warning of the continued loss of America's competitive edge with regards to science in the global community. In a press release they call for the immediate increase of teachers and advanced research and development, citing that 'in 2001 U.S. industry spent more on tort litigation than on research and development.' The Committee includes, among others, Intel's Craig 'Don't Call Us Benedict Arnold CEOs' Barrett. National Academies on U.S. Science Log in/Create an Account | Top | 186 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 186 comments 0: 185 comments 1: 143 comments 2: 114 comments 3: 26 comments 4: 15 comments 5: 11 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. never fear!! (Score:5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 15, @07:34PM (#13799558) The Americans have "faith based" science. What could go wrong? [ Reply to This Re: never fear!! (Score:5, Funny) by Black Parrot (19622) on Saturday October 15, @07:40PM (#13799601) > The Americans have "faith based" science. What could go wrong?We may not produce the best science, but at least we produce the best musi- uh, the best televis- uh, the best automob- uh...We're screwed, aren't we. [ Reply to This | ParentRe: never fear!! by HungWeiLo (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @07:42PMRe: never fear!! by ilyaaohell (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:21PMRe: never fear!! by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:29PMRe: never fear!! by FLEB (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:09PMRe: never fear!! by at_slashdot (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @09:09PMRe: never fear!! by WilliamSChips (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @07:43PMRe: never fear!! by NanoGator (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @10:03PMRe: never fear!! by Hatta (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:58PMRe:never fear!! by mwaggs_jd (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @09:17PMRe:never fear!! by Robocoastie (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @10:51PM Culture is the issue (Score:5, Interesting) by LaughingCoder (914424) on Saturday October 15, @07:38PM (#13799585) In American society, being good at math or science is generally regarded as geeky or nerdy and is roundly disparraged. Small wonder American kids want nothing to do with it. Look at the popular TV shows - many are about lawyers, doctors, and law enforcement types. If there is a technically saavy person, they are made fun of and treated as quaint. Until this changes we can throw all the money we want at the problem, but it won't change much. Back in the 60's it was cool to be into science - largely thanks to the space race (and to a lesser degree the cold war). There was even a TV personality (Fred MacMurray in My Three Sons) who played an aeronautical engineer, and he was actually portrayed in a positive light! That's impossible to imagine in today's culture. Maybe if we had something akin to the space program, say a race to energy indepenence, we could once again make it cool to pursue a career in science, math, physics or engineering. [ Reply to ThisTime for them to find a better culture. by CyricZ (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @07:42PMRe:Time for them to find a better culture. by Alejo (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:20PM Re:Culture is the issue (Score:4, Insightful) by going_the_2Rpi_way (818355) on Saturday October 15, @07:53PM (#13799675) (http://www.athenus.com/) I think the culture argument is mostly baloney, and the state of IP in the US contributes substantially.People 'do' science because they find it cool, not because they become rock stars. And there are of course science shows like "Numb3rs" (awful) and "CSI" and "Star Trek" and about a million others that try to some degree to spotlight science. The number of "Adventures in Engineering" or "Women in Engineering" camps has grown considerably over the last 10 years in these parts.Also changing is the degree of security around science (this has become a major issue to research and collaboration and being able to publish). The US has also historically had the incredible ability to draw the best minds from around the world. This is also changing as world opinion of the US drops and also as the security increases. Middle eastern researchers trying to work in the US face undue scrutiny from the authorities professionally and possibly prejdice in their family personally.Just my opinion of course... [ Reply to This | Parent Re:Culture is the issue (Score:5, Informative) by king-manic (409855) on Saturday October 15, @08:01PM (#13799714) (Last Journal: Friday May 28, @06:11PM) I think the culture argument is mostly baloney, and the state of IP in the US contributes substantially.People 'do' science because they find it cool, not because they become rock stars. And there are of course science shows like "Numb3rs" (awful) and "CSI" and "Star Trek" and about a million others that try to some degree to spotlight science. The number of "Adventures in Engineering" or "Women in Engineering" camps has grown considerably over the last 10 years in these parts. Actually, highschol culture is a huge reason why more people don't go into the sciences. That and the relatively low pay scales of scientists compared to other professions with similiar training periods. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Culture is the issue by mikael (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:03PMRe:Culture is the issue by Courageous (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:38PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Culture is the issue by RiotXIX (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @07:58PMRe:Culture is the issue by Sponge Bath (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:25PMRe:Culture is the issue by lazzaro (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @10:50PMRe:Culture is the issue by ZippyKitty (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @08:00PMIt's culture, but not the way people think. by mdarksbane (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:28PM Study hard, master your profession, get shit (Score:5, Informative) by Simonetta (207550) on Saturday October 15, @08:08PM (#13799735) I can't believe that the CEO of Intel is worried about the loss of US scientific positioning. He does everything possible to drive people OUT of the technical and engineering professions.    This is the guy who's company insists that you have college degrees and take a drug test before they will even consider you for a temp position working in any technicial position in his company.    Did I say temp? Goodness me, I meant perma-temp. Work for years as a 'contract' employee with no health insurance, job security, advancement, or benefits.    Intel sucks. Check out the FACEIntel website for more information. I spent a week at Intel ten years ago. I sure hope that I never have to go back there. Unless you are one of the top twenty people in the world at what you do, Intel is a total dead-end company. And if you are one of the top twenty people in the world in your speciality, why the hell would you want to work at Intel? It's a 'sixth sense' company; already dead but doesn't know it. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Study hard, master your profession, get shit by Colonel Panic (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @08:45PMRe:Study hard, master your profession, get shit by Courageous (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @11:41PMRe:Study hard, master your profession, get shit by aero6dof (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:28AMRe:Culture is the issue by pymike (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:13PMRe:Culture is the issue by Alex P Keaton in da (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:19PMRe:Culture is the issue by ilyaaohell (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @08:31PMRe:Culture is the issue by Alex P Keaton in da (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:44PMRe:Culture is the issue by ilyaaohell (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:53PMRe:Culture is the issue by Courageous (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:44PMRe:Culture is the issue by incom (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:05AM2 replies beneath your current threshold. I would narrow this down (Score:5, Interesting) by Julian Morrison (5575) on Saturday October 15, @08:36PM (#13799857) It's not even your general culture. It's your public education system, which sucks every imaginable mode of ass. It is a union-captured mediocrity-ruled Prussian-designed system absolutely intended to hammer the individual flat to the collective.If you have a child in the USA, home-school them. Go hungry, rather than send them to government school. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Culture is the issue by fbg111 (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:41PMRe:Culture is the issue by MrResistor (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:37PMWrong by ttfkam (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:33PM Wrong. It is $$$ (Score:5, Insightful) by Ogemaniac (841129) on Saturday October 15, @10:04PM (#13800254) There was a recent wide-spread report indicating prestige of various professions, and scientists were number one! Lack of respect is not what is driving kids away from science, it is lack of cash. As I have posted here numerous times, a smart person can make a lot more money in law, business, or medicine, all without having to stay in school until one is 30 (or older, depending on the number of post-docs you have to grind through).Unless this changes, we aren't going to have lots of home-grown scientists. It is that simple.I am a chemistry post-doc at a highly-regarded university, and have every reason to consider myself a highly intelligent person. I work my ass off (60h/week...a REAL 60h). I am nearing my 31st birthday.I have never made more than $22,000 in a single year.Do you see the problem?And I won't even bother to elaborate on how slaving 60h+ each week in a virtually all-male environment inhibits one's social life. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Wrong. It is $$$ by Courageous (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:50PMRe:Wrong. It is $$$ by Hsien (Score:1) Sunday October 16, @12:26AMRe:Wrong. It is $$$ by Tablizer (Score:1) Sunday October 16, @12:17AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:Culture is the issue (Score:4, Insightful) by fireboy1919 (257783) <rustypNO@SPAMfreeshell.org> on Saturday October 15, @10:28PM (#13800362) (http://rustyp.freeshell.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday April 29, @10:22AM) Are you saying that shows about forensics and medicine aren't geeky? Have you watched any of those shows? They're all about the science!Ever watch MacGuyver? It had a pretty long run, and that wasn't too long ago. How about Jimmy Neutron? Main character, not comic relief, meant to be smart. Its still on.Its not impossible. Take off your nostalgia glasses and take a closer look. Its cooler to be a geek today than it has ever been. People wear the word with pride. Heck there are even companies that market the fact that they have them (Geek Squad, dial-a-geek).Its not the coolness we have to blame. People want to be smart more than they ever did. It's that1) Its hard2) We don't have enough people who are good at it to teach it.The same is true in other disciplines. Have you used AIM lately? Spelling, grammar, punctuation and vocabulary are pretty well shot. People don't have the ability to organize their thoughts into paragraphs (case in point: you). It seems as though we've come farther with those than with math.I don't think so. Its just that most of the other subjects are so much easier for so many people to understand. So they get a little farther with the same amount of effort. Therefore, they seem to be farther along.I have a hope that the coming of the age of the Internet is changing things. We have not had it very long, and I think that ultimately it is the internet that has changed the perception of geeks as cool. We will have to see how many teachers who are good at Math and science come out of it in the next two decades or so to see if it made a difference; its just too soon to tell.Of course, by then, we'll really know. Most of the teachers around today are about to retire. [ Reply to This | Parent1 reply beneath your current threshold. Choosing between religion fanaticism and science. (Score:2, Interesting) by CyricZ (887944) on Saturday October 15, @07:38PM (#13799587) It's time for the US to choose between a reliance on religious fanaticism or science. If the focus remains on religious fanaticism, then the education of the nation's youth will suffer far more than it already had. But thankfully it's not too late to switch gears, and again put a focus on science and math (even if it means some contradiction with popular religious beliefs).Having recently travelled to several US states, I don't think that enough of the population would be willing to make such a necessary change. While there are many very intelligent and very astute Americans, they are unfortunately in the minority. The majority seem to be Bible-toting, science-hating individuals.Perhaps the best thing to do would be for America's scientific elite to leave America to those who are either religious fanatics or have a strong dislike for academia. There are always Western nations like England, Canada, Ireland, France, Germany, Belgium, Australia and many others who would gladly accept such talent. The scientists will be better off, and eventually those who rejected higher education will fall into economic obscurity. [ Reply to ThisRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Black Parrot (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @07:43PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Hao Wu (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @07:48PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by tempehop (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @07:49PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Alex P Keaton in da (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:28PM Re:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc (Score:5, Insightful) by Kohath (38547) on Saturday October 15, @07:58PM (#13799695) It's time for the US to choose between a reliance on religious fanaticism or science.How would I recognize one of these fanatics? Would they- Obsessively post the same message over and over again?- Try to make every topic of discussion, no matter how unconnected, a forum for their views?- Consistently demonize other points of view?- Counter well-meaning factual arguments with name-calling?- Use guilt by association to try to discredit their unbelievers?- Use fear as a motivator?I sure am worried about all the fanaticism. I hope I can recognize it when I see it. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by CyricZ (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:04PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Kohath (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @08:09PMThere are multiple problems, you do realize. by CyricZ (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:21PMRe:There are multiple problems, you do realize. by Kohath (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:29PMProfessionalism. by CyricZ (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @10:17PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by NMerriam (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:23PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by NMerriam (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:02PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Alex P Keaton in da (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:38PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by mbrother (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:15AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by king-manic (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:58PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by ZippyKitty (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:16PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by mbrother (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:20AMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Erwos (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:34PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by rco3 (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:32PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by Sponge Bath (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:44PMRe:Choosing between religion fanaticism and scienc by zerus (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:34PMThey need to by CiXeL (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:10PMHow can you confuse a loud-mouth 1% with by Ogemaniac (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @10:46PM4 replies beneath your current threshold. The more things change... (Score:5, Insightful) by HanzoSpam (713251) on Saturday October 15, @07:39PM (#13799594) I remember hearing this business about our losing our scientific edge even as Apollo was landing astronauts on the moon. In itself, I really don't worry about it much. This has been a nation mostly of crackpots and bumpkins right from day one.Our advantage never came from having the brightest of populations, it came from having an economic and legal system that placed few barriers in the paths of the talented, which also made this country an attractive place for talented foreigners to migrate to as well (think Andy Grove, Albert Einstein or Andrew Carnegie).I'm a lot more worried about losing the advantages our legal and economic system afforded us than I am about some egalitarian vision of providing advanced education to the Great Unwashed. [ Reply to ThisRe:The more things change... by CyricZ (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @07:48PMRe:The more things change... by HanzoSpam (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:01PMRe:The more things change... by Rakishi (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:20PMRe:The more things change... by WilliamSChips (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @10:08PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:The more things change... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:13PMNSF cuts? by Ogemaniac (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @10:55PMYep. That Legal System Sure Doesn't Get in the Way by weston (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:36PMRe:Yep. That Legal System Sure Doesn't Get in the by HanzoSpam (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @08:46PMRe:The more things change... by king-manic (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:06PMRe:The more things change... by dbIII (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @09:40PM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Dubya'd (Score:2, Insightful) by 0x15 (852429) on Saturday October 15, @07:41PM (#13799603) Let me get this staight, they're asking the guy who 'believes' that intelligent design should be given time in schools to improve our science curriculum?Obviously, this committee has a deathwish. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. I know who to blame (Score:3, Funny) by Kohath (38547) on Saturday October 15, @07:44PM (#13799626) But why is George Bush causing all these Slashdot dupes? [ Reply to This More investiments are always welcome (Score:5, Interesting) by gustgr (695173) <rondina@gmail.PASCALcom minus language> on Saturday October 15, @07:44PM (#13799628) (http://gustgr.freeshell.org/ | Last Journal: Saturday January 08, @03:51AM) Last time I looked the US was the 1st on the list of scientific papers published by countries with more than 60% of the papers. The second position (United Kingdom IIRC) was really far from US in number of papers. It would be nice if not just one big expoend had the control of most scientific efforts, but many nations sharing this "privileged position".I indeed believe US industry should invest more in research (as all other nations should do, always, no matter what). But it's worthy noting that other nations are growing and maturing too, US can't avoid that. Besides that, this is not a fight. The benefits achieved from researches aims all humanity (at least it should be that way), so it isn't important who is at the top of the list, but it is important to support studies and researches, both in academia and in industry. [ Reply to ThisRe:More investiments are always welcome by Alomex (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @07:55PMRe:More investiments are always welcome by drooling-dog (Score:3) Saturday October 15, @08:30PMRe:More investiments are always welcome by Frogbert (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:56PM33%, not 60% by Dire Bonobo (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:20AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Shouldn't make generalizations (Score:2) by MarkWatson (189759) on Saturday October 15, @07:46PM (#13799639) (http://www.markwatson.com/) While there are disturbing trends (e.g., low math and science scores, more interest in education in developing nations, eventual decline of U.S. economy) I think that there is still a lot to be optimistic about.For one thing, the standard of living is so high in the U.S., that a decline of luxuries is liveable -really what do you need but good friends, family food, and shelter - give me a break on the Polyana B.S. because I just got back from a good friend's wedding (where I was asked to play my didgeridoo :-). Really, it is relationships that matter in life, not material crap.I still believe that the U.S. (along with a lot of other countries) still has a surfeit of talented creative people. Right now, innovative web applications is what is catching my interests - but there is a lot of great things happening in field of IT.Sure the trends are a little disturbing, but people who love doing what they do will mostly still have good lives, even if things in the U.S. generally decline. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Mixed Message on U.S. Science Careers? (Score:2) by theodp (442580) on Saturday October 15, @07:47PM (#13799644) From the press release: "For the cost of one chemist or one engineer in the United States, a company can hire about five chemists in China or 11 engineers in India." [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. I'm not suprised! (Score:2) by bogaboga (793279) on Saturday October 15, @07:51PM (#13799669) I am a mathematics teacher and in my class, only foreign born students see the value of education and put efforts at learning. Even those from impoverished economies in Africa do better when compared to my American students. Meanwhile, in another class at my school, our American [educational] system is producing pretty confident students, but who cannot deliver in the real world. As me what they are confident at: Gameboys, iPODs and PS2s. Sad indeed.We have a theory though: At our school, we think that American students are growing up with too many distractions and marketing to kids by companies wishing to expand profits is not helping our efforts at all. The other thing is hip-hop. You have these fellows bragging about how they dropped out of school, but now own limos. Then you have the "race to the bottom" with low paying jobs (read Wal-Mart), to the extent that to be in the middle class now, as a family, there MUST be at least 2 income earners. Studies show that it was not like that in the fifties. [ Reply to ThisRe:I'm not suprised! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @10:42PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Fix the fucked up patent system? (Score:2) by brxndxn (461473) on Saturday October 15, @07:51PM (#13799671) Or is extended litigation actually benefecial for our economy? I mean.. Money goes into research for goods and services.. Or, corporate money (money indirectly and directly from workers and investers) can go into the hands of rich law firms (to the tune of 30% each transaction)..So.. is it beneficial for our economy to increase the gap between the rich and the middle class? [ Reply to This Where have I heard this before??? (Score:2) by evilviper (135110) on Saturday October 15, @07:53PM (#13799674) (Last Journal: Friday August 26, @05:00AM) Deja Dupe. [slashdot.org] Just a couple days ago.Feel free to copy/paste those highly rated comments into this thread... [ Reply to This Too focused on happiness (Score:1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 15, @07:54PM (#13799679) While it is true, gaining gold on each turn helps us afford our mechanized infantry, we would be better served moving happiness down to 10%, and increasing science to 60%. We would still gain the gold we need, and with just 48 turns left, and those damned Aztecs with the higher average scores, our only hope is too win the space race... [ Reply to This Brain Drain (Score:2) by Hatta (162192) on Saturday October 15, @07:59PM (#13799697) (Last Journal: Thursday July 15, @10:56PM) So if an american student wanted to go get a cutting edge graduate education in biotech field, what countries would he want to look at first? Does it hurt if he only speaks english? [ Reply to This2 replies beneath your current threshold. New invention - great market potential (Score:2) by tomhudson (43916) <thudson@g[ ]l.com ['mai' in gap]> on Saturday October 15, @07:59PM (#13799700) (Last Journal: Saturday October 15, @06:01PM) in 2001 U.S. industry spent more on tort litigation than on research and development So what US industry is saying is that there is a HUGE market for "Mr. LEGAL BEAGLE" software. Okay, Captains of Industry! Tired of spending big bux on lawyers? Subscribe to our Mr. Legal Beagle software service, and kiss your torts goodbye! Now, instead of counting the dollars wasted every minute you talk to an attorney, you can do a web-based "interview" with our legal AI, who will analyse your case and prepare any necessary briefs. When it comes time to go to court, just bring your laptop and a wireless internet connection, and Mr. Legal Beagle will argue your case for you. Choose from 7 exciting avatars - including Beezlebub (our most popular), Snoopy, and Darl McBride (insanity pleas). More added every month. Extra services - Mr. Bribe and Mr. BreakYourLegs - for when you want to "negociate" a "settlement." At an extra cost, of course. So what are you waiting for? Don't waste another penny on lawyers. Get Mr. Legal Beagle TODAY. Before your competitors or customers do, and sue YOU! [ Reply to This Better teachers desperately needed (Score:2) by Raul654 (453029) on Saturday October 15, @07:59PM (#13799702) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Raul654) (Preface - I'm doing a PhD in computer engineering. Both my parents are teachers [high school - one teaches languge, the other biology], and it looks like I'll be teaching an undergraduate computer-engineering course within the next year).The BIG problem is that the quality of math and science teaching has gone to hell in a hand-basket. I've taken dozens and dozens of science, engineering, and math courses, and *maybe* 8-10 of them had good teachers (only two of them below the university level). The teachers are failing to adaquentely instruct the students.   Over the last 3-4 years my entire department has seen a rather dramatic drop in the competency of the students at the higher levels. The students aren't getting dumber, they are just less capable - they don't the material as well as they should, and you can't teach them everything in a 15 week course. I put almost all of the blame on the teachers they had as freshmen and in high school (and before that, even - I remember seeing in a National Science Teacher Assocation flyer that most studies show the big "black hole" in science education occurs around the 5th-8th grade) [ Reply to ThisRe:Better teachers desperately needed by digitalhermit (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @08:20PM Well... (Score:5, Insightful) by linguae (763922) on Saturday October 15, @08:00PM (#13799709) ...if our corporations were ran by people with science and engineering backgrounds who cared about long-term research and development rather than ran by MBAs with BAs in Medieval History and Philosophy who can't differentiate a simple function or write a line of code, and who care more about short-term profits and $$$, then perhaps we'll see some more scientific and engineering progress in this country. Witness the downfall of Bell Labs, for example. Bell Labs was very innovative and many of its research projects led to things that we take for granted today (the very operating system that I'm typing this message on now, is FreeBSD, which is a direct descendant of Bell Labs' Unix [if you ignore the fact that the code was completely rewritten]). Then, some person [wikipedia.org] who knows nothing about science and engineering took control and cut its funding to its knees. Now Bell Labs is very small, and that same dummy went on to destroy HP in a similar fashion....The education system isn't looking that great, either. Our secondary schools are also failing to teach the basic science and mathematics needed to produce students capable of succeeding in an science or engineering field. College students looking at future career prospects might end up switching to law or business, because the future looks brighter for them. After all, we're outsourcing a great deal of the engineering jobs.This country is fast on its way of becoming a country full of rich lawyers and managers, and poor McDonalds employees and janitors. But who will be exploring science and developing new technologies? The Indians and Chinese, of course. Their corporate culture seems to care much more about the future, and besides, many of our corporations are using them to do our non-law/managerial work.If we want to turn back the tide, the corporate culture needs to change, and we need more CEOs who have science and engineering backgrounds who care about science and engineering. The school system in this country also needs to be radically improved. [ Reply to ThisRe:Well... by Daniel Dvorkin (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:12PMRe:Well... by linguae (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:23PMRe:Well... by Daniel Dvorkin (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:36PMRe:Well... by nido (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:34PMRe:Well...nothing by j_f_chamblee (Score:1) Saturday October 15, @11:44PMRe:Well... by Jeff DeMaagd (Score:2) Saturday October 15, @11:47PMRe:Well... by frostman (Score:2) Sunday October 16, @12:09AM Oh Boy! (Score:2) by Comatose51 (687974) on Saturday October 15, @08:08PM (#13799734) We've heard calls for better science education for years but it must be getting horrible for them to issue a second warning [slashdot.org] with a couple days of each other! [ Reply to This Education Costs (Score:1) by benow (671946) on Saturday October 15, @08:09PM (#13799737) (http://benow.ca/) Walked into a college bookstore today. CDN$114 was the going rate for a new compsci textbook. That's $500/semester on books alone. Why? It's a fucking racket, that's why. Sure, nobody takes responsability for higher tuition costs, only gloating about the pittance reductions when they come. Managers don't want to pay for the skills, despite the obvious advantages. High school graduates opt out of uni due to high cost, low motivation to have their work underapreciated and other reasons, and don't continue to learn of learning... if there's hope, it's that the improved communication channels can be used to facilitate the majority of learning done by oneself and encourages the learning of self teaching, but (currently) does little for lab work, inter-personal or vocation training... and no piece of paper at the end of it all. So, in lieu of anyone who seems to care about distributed education, let us bring it about ourselves. Work together to improve the state of distributed learning. Surely a trust based distributed certification system can't be beyond reach. [ Reply to This curiosity (Score:2) by fermion (181285) <lowt.bigfoot@com> on Saturday October 15, @08:13PM (#13799752) (Last Journal: Saturday October 04, @11:52PM) I think the US just have different priorities, and is having trouble competing in a more connected world. One theory suggests that the great US university was grew because a combination of interesting event. First, too many rich kids in the new world would die of plague when sent to England, so we started setting up 'good' schools here. Second, as we became industrialized, we had the cash to entice investors to come to the new world. At least one stayed because it was easier than going back. The greatest push for public higher education, however, was likely WWII, in which we had all these farmboys coming back with not much to do. And the unique thing about is that they had seen the world outside of their town. They had a perspective greater than their parents, and were curious. They knew what hard work was, and the advantages of not having to do the hard work. So they got degrees in engineering, math and science. And many made the discoveries that made the US a leader.At the same time, during and after WWII, many great minds were coming to the relatively freedom of the US. It is often say the Allies won WWII because we had the smarter Germans. This continued to the end of the the 20th century, when changes in the US and foreign rules, the increasing cost of a US education, and the availability of other options, reduced the influx of foreign talent.Even with all this, I think there are three critical factors that makes the US less competitive, beyond the general presence of anti-intellectualism and the president that is proud that he cannot read complex prose. The first is that funding priorities are focused more on war and less on education, therefore most Universities have less money with which to educate. Second, though I think the WWII vets communicated the wonder of the world to their kids, the grandkids do not seem to understand. I know too many kids of successful people decline to the bum slacker status, never creating anything more complex than a cup of coffee at Starbucks.Third, we are not communicated the wonder of the world to average kids. They grow up believing that a worker and consumer is all they can be. That is what most will be, but some can be more, and it is these resources that we are wasting. And as the US returns to protectionism, there will be less chance for a kid to be exposed to the wonder of the world. Worse, i see television shows where contestants say the most wonderful thing they have done in their life is to hold their breaths for a couple minutes, or stay still while bugs crawl on. I often did the later when I was a kid, and I never thought is was so great. What is great is launching a satellite, or helping a factory stay in the US, or helping a company stay afloat so those jobs are saved, and more are created. or a new school of art, or a new way of communicating information. And everyone will say a normal person cannot do these things, but normal people do all things everyday. All anyone thinks can be done is new and more complex ways of stealing money or cheating on taxes so our boys do not have the equipment they need, the medical care, or the education facilities when they return. [ Reply to This