alabamarasta writes "In a recent report from China titled "EmbattledLinux fights back", it appears that Microsoft is just as embattled." From the article: "Citing an executive at Microsoft headquarters, Lu said Linux and Windows should co-exist. Microsoft in recent years has been struggling with an increasing number of security flaws on its Windows platforms while Linux is generally regarded as more secure. 'For users, openness increases the trustworthiness,' said Lu." Microsoft & Linux Should Co-Exist In China Log in/Create an Account | Top | 140 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 140 comments 0: 134 comments 1: 104 comments 2: 68 comments 3: 25 comments 4: 14 comments 5: 7 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. (Score:2, Interesting) by CyricZ (887944) on Sunday October 23, @01:54PM (#13858536) The Chinese market will be the decisive battle ground between Linux and Windows. Indeed, whoever manages to become the leader in that market will soon become the world leader. Why is that? Because the Chinese market has the potential to completely dwarf both the American and European markets. Once the Chinese market has matured, investors will think of American and the EU as they today think of Luxembourg and Jamaica. [ Reply to ThisRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by mordors9 (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @02:07PM Re:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. (Score:5, Interesting) by CyricZ (887944) on Sunday October 23, @02:18PM (#13858637) It depends on what regions you're considering, with respect to how many families own computers. Not as many people in the rural areas have computers, but that's offset by them being very prevalent in the cities. Of course, the population of just the cities of China are several times the population of the entire United States. But then again, individuals and families aren't the only computer users. Businesses also require PCs, and operating systems to run on them.Remember, China is just beginning its growth as a modern country. It's perhaps where the US was in the mid 1800s. It's transitioning from basically a slave-based economy towards a true enterprise economy. It'll be a mature market before you, the US and the EU know it. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by GreyWolf3000 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:27PMChinese oil by falconwolf (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:53PMIn a global economy we need a global workforce by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:09PMRe:In a global economy we need a global workforce by fastgood (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @04:02PMRe:In a global economy we need a global workforce by cnettel (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @04:35PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by timeOday (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @06:43PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by WuphonsReach (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @07:43PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by barum87 (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @04:41PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by patiodragon (Score:1) Monday October 24, @12:20AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. (Score:5, Insightful) by Decaff (42676) on Sunday October 23, @02:22PM (#13858655) The Chinese market will be the decisive battle ground between Linux and Windows. Indeed, whoever manages to become the leader in that market will soon become the world leader. Why is that? Because the Chinese market has the potential to completely dwarf both the American and European markets.This doesn't make any sense at all.Firstly, there is no single battleground between Linux and Windows. There are a number of separate battlegrounds: mobile devices, embedded systems, home desktops, corporate workstations, small servers, mid-range servers, enterprise servers, e-mail servers etc. Winning or losing in any one of these may not have much of an impact in any other.Secondly, what happens in one area of the world in terms of OS dominance does not imply or force success elsewhere. For example, Microsoft technologies have far more dominance in the USA than in Europe.Thirdly, there is a huge and growing market that has a tendency to appreciate open source - India.So, the idea of there being a 'decisive battleground', and this being China, does not make sense.Once the Chinese market has matured, investors will think of American and the EU as they today think of Luxembourg and Jamaica.Extremely unlikely. America and the EU are far too large and skill & resource-rich by comparison. [ Reply to This | Parent Re:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. (Score:4, Insightful) by CyricZ (887944) on Sunday October 23, @02:28PM (#13858680) What's to say that Linux won't take over in all those areas that you mentioned? You're assuming incorrectly that it can only "win" in one area. That's far from the truth. It could easily become dominant on all sorts of devices, for all sorts of applications, in China.Indeed, India will also be an important battleground. However, China is far more coherent as a whole than India. India is a big locomotive, but it's not fully up to speed yet. China is just as big, and it's going far faster.America and the EU are far too large and skill & resource-rich by comparison.That's what Europeans said about America a couple hundred years ago. And witness how the economy of America overtook that of Europe for many decades. It happened once, and it may very well happen again. The upstart will overtake the existing economies. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by Decaff (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:54PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.China will never be America by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:12PMRe:China will never be America by tsa (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:39PMRe:China will never be America by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @06:19PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by Bellum Aeternus (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @04:43PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by AaronGTurner (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @05:28PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by rtb61 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @11:30PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by Coryoth (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:57PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by Decaff (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @05:18PMThere Is No China Market by grcumb (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @08:37PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by Homology (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:36PMIf investing is the new American workforce by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:44PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by miffo.swe (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @02:45PMLook, I'm not against building new markets BUT by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:48PMHow can we move to China? by elucido (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @02:54PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by ObsessiveMathsFreak (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @03:09PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by fastgood (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:52PMRe:The Chinese market is the battlegrounds.. by lokedhs (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:35PM3 replies beneath your current threshold. Profit Making (Score:5, Insightful) by geomon (78680) on Sunday October 23, @01:56PM (#13858547) (http://www.cato.org/ | Last Journal: Sunday April 17, @02:12AM) Lu, also a former senior government official, was responding to a report released by the China Software Industry Association (CSIA) in late August which called for the government to review its preference for open-source software. The government's "excessive preference" for the open-source Linux platform is harming the domestic software industry, and Linux's business model is flawed as the low, or no, charge is thwarting the profitability of Linux developers, the CSIA asserted in the report.Now while I am not opposed to people making money from their work, nor am I opposed to people making huge profits from their businesses, I find rediculous the whole idea that government should intercede in a free market because somebody can't make money from a commodity. If you can't make a living or profit from something, then find a new line of work or business. Why should the government demand that something make money?So what is the solution to their "problem"? Are they going to ban open source software because it drives profit making companies into the ground? Does this mean you have to get a license to write software, or work for a profit-making company to write code? Where does this protection racket end?I know that many /.ers make a living writing code and take offense at the notion that they should have to give up a living because someone else does their job without asking for money. But consider the fact that no one charges you for the air you breathe. I'm sure that someone, somewhere, would love to charge you for that air and the fact that you get it for free means some poor schmuck can't make a profit from it. Hell, we should demand that the government get involved and require everyone who breathes to pay a toll to some company who will ensure that air is always available for us to breathe.What is funniest about this whole 'software industry can't make money' discussion is that no one considers the huge profit potential of every thing someone does for another person just because they like them or want to help.Charities rob profit-making enterprises. [ Reply to ThisRe:Profit Making by Decameron81 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:22PMRe:Profit Making by Decameron81 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:44PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Profit Making by unixbugs (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @02:37PMRe:Profit Making by Matt Perry (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:49PMRe:Profit Making by Coryoth (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @05:12PM My fave: "Linux's business model is flawed" (Score:5, Insightful) by fuzzy12345 (745891) on Sunday October 23, @01:57PM (#13858552) It's hard to argue with success, but claiming Linux's business model is flawed? It isn't like Linux got to where it is today through tied selling (bundling), being subsidized by other business units, government mandates, being sold below the cost of production or anything else which might conceivably be called a flawed business model.If this is the spread of a flawed business model with nearly no ad budget, just think how successful it could have been if it had followed the antitrust-attracting model of some well known competitors! [ Reply to ThisMy fave is: buy M$ and make more money. by twitter (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @02:20PMRe:My fave: "Linux's business model is flawed" by unixbugs (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @02:48PMRe:My fave: "Linux's business model is flawed" by slowbad (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @04:18PMRe:My fave: "Linux's business model is flawed" by superpulpsicle (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @05:14PM common business practice (Score:2, Interesting) by icepick72 (834363) on Sunday October 23, @01:58PM (#13858555) Lu said Linux and Windows should co-exist (and then you put square brackets around what was inferred ... however this is what I am guessing was inferred) ... [so that Microsoft can get its foot in the door, however MS still doesn't care about Linux.]Not every relationship is mutually beneficial. Parsitic relationships are valid relationships too. That's what business has to do to get the foot in the door whether it be Microsoft or somebody else. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacific (Score:2, Redundant) by ozzee (612196) on Sunday October 23, @02:00PM (#13858561) Steve must be going nuts over this articleSeriously though, not even Microsft can stop the widespread adoption of Linux and this article is just the beginning.Especially when it comes to China and India. These countries have loads of good engineers and they can't be held hotage to someone in Seattle. Microsoft is forced to play nice. [ Reply to This Re:In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacifi (Score:4, Interesting) by Andy_R (114137) on Sunday October 23, @02:08PM (#13858591) (http://slashdot.org/ | Last Journal: Friday October 01, @08:19AM) Microsoft have been incredibly slow to realise that Windows can always go back to being what it was when it first got really successful at version 3.1, a GUI. Most people don't know what an OS even is, and wouldn't be aware of any difference (except increased stablility) if what they bought from Microsoft was a GUI for Linux instead of an actual operating system with GUI built in. Taking this approach (albeit with a Unix core) hasn't hurt Apple's OSX.AS soon as Microsoft realise this, they can cut their development costs massively, and keep the same sales figures. I have no idea why their shareholders are not demanding this already! [ Reply to This | ParentRe:In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacifi by CyricZ (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:22PMRe:In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacifi by belmolis (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @02:36PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacifi by spectecjr (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @05:02PMRe:In the news: Ballmer Throws Chair Across Pacifi by Physics Nobody (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @05:24PM This *IS* interesting... (Score:4, Insightful) by zappepcs (820751) on Sunday October 23, @02:05PM (#13858578) (http://www.asomaworld.net/zinn | Last Journal: Tuesday October 04, @08:28PM) Seems to me that the issue at hand is not the way F/OSS works, but how China can work F/OSS.FTFA: "If China manages to set up a Linux community, it could take advantage of the talents and resources of the global community to better develop and promote Linux and foster top-notch software developers, Lu said."While MS has had a good run of dominating the software industry, it would appear that there are those that don't want to play ball with MS, and are looking at ways to go around that little licensing issue.Linux can milk a cow, but how do you milk an industry without a licensing scheme that fills your bank account? Is there plans for China to be the next big 'outsourcing' server for software development? [ Reply to This m$ will have to get rid of the stripped down os (Score:5, Insightful) by saurabhdutta (904490) on Sunday October 23, @02:12PM (#13858610) M$ has been aiming at countries like china, thailand, india, brazil etc. with stripped down Win XP. Who on earth would in right minds pay $300 or so in these countries for a full fledged OS when alternatives are available for free. Even pirated copies are sold at every street corner with no watchdog around. M$ seriously needs to rethink its marketing strategy to penetrate these economies and counter growing support for OSS. Maybe a different pricing strategy or leasing out the lisence for a period of time might work. [ Reply to This Doesn't matter yet (Score:5, Interesting) by LaughingCoder (914424) on Sunday October 23, @02:12PM (#13858611) IMO, it is currently very difficult to make a profit selling software (or indeed anything distributed digitally) in the Chinese market. Protections against illicit copying (which is rampant) are rarely enforced, and black-market copies are ubiquitious (this goes for Windows, DVDs, music CDs, other software titles). As China evolves these protections will have to be developed and enforced; they'll need them to protect their own content-creators, not just foreign ones. Only then will it make sense for Microsoft to aggressively pursue the Chinese market. Until then, "co-existing" with Linux is the smart strategy to adopt. [ Reply to ThisRe:Doesn't matter yet by level_headed_midwest (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:04PMRe:Doesn't matter yet by B2382F29 (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:40PMIt does matter... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @08:01PMRe:Doesn't matter yet by tyler_larson (Score:2) Monday October 24, @12:46AM What's so different here? (Score:5, Informative) by totallygeek (263191) on Sunday October 23, @02:16PM (#13858631) (http://www.vle.org/vle) Hell, most of the networks I encounter have Linux and Windows co-existing. Sometimes even interoperating! [ Reply to ThisRe:What's so different here? by DanteLysin (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @02:46PM Capitalism and Communism in the same country? (Score:1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 23, @02:29PM (#13858684) Only in China. [ Reply to This Microsoft & Linux Should Co-Exist In China (Score:2) by falconwolf (725481) <falconsoaring_2000.yahoo@com> on Sunday October 23, @02:45PM (#13858757) They should coexist everywhere. Just as with any other useage the proper tool should be used. For most people, who don't care to learn that much about an operating system Windows is a fair tool, it's relatively easy to install the OS, install applications, and use (though the Mac beats Windows in ease of use and installing apps). Linux, although getting better, isn't easy to the average person to use. However unlike Windows Linux is stable and doesn't crash nearly as much.Falcon [ Reply to ThisRe:Microsoft & Linux Should Co-Exist In China by islanduniverse (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:20PM What sort of computer are you using? by falconwolf (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:03PMRe: What sort of computer are you using? by superflyguy (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @07:02PMRe:Microsoft & Linux Should Co-Exist In China by Lifewish (Score:3) Sunday October 23, @07:04PM Concerns about security more than bugs (Score:4, Interesting) by Mostly a lurker (634878) on Sunday October 23, @02:48PM (#13858769) The 2003 Chinese directive that government ministries must use exclusively locally developed or open source software was not just based on perceived better code quality or cost. The Chinese authorities at the time (and probably still now) were very concerned about possible backdoors for US security agencies in US closed source products. IMHO, their concerns have some merit. A Google search for "Lew Giles" is interesting. [ Reply to ThisA Google search for "Lew Giles" is interesting. by falconwolf (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:49PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. I'd agree, but... (Score:1, Insightful) by petrus4 (213815) on Sunday October 23, @02:57PM (#13858812) (http://aqpeag.blogspot.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday August 02, @02:08PM) The problem is that the GNU trolls are likely to be just as opposed to co-existence on Linux's side of the fence as Microsoft are.People continue making out that Microsoft is always the sole bad guy in any such argument...but the truth is that there are a lot of people associated with Linux who don't appreciate diversity of opinion, either. The GNU crowd want just as much a monoculture of their own as Microsoft does. Try advocating the use of *any* other license to a GNU zealot sometime and watch what happens, if you don't believe me. [ Reply to ThisRe:I'd agree, but... by MarkByers (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @03:45PMRe:I'd agree, but... by petrus4 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @11:50PM Chinese Officials are funny, or maybe divided (Score:1) by Deliveranc3 (629997) on Sunday October 23, @03:02PM (#13858839) openness increases the trustworthiness It's teh communism! [ Reply to ThisRe:Chinese Officials are funny, or maybe divided by malelder (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:08PM Article summary (Score:4, Informative) by pjrc (134994) <paul@pjrc.com> on Sunday October 23, @03:09PM (#13858870) (http://www.pjrc.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday June 27, @05:31PM) For anyone who didn't bother to read the EmbattledLinux Fights Back article, here's roughly what you missed:Lu Shouqun, leader of a Linux advocacy group believes the Chineese govt should make more use of Linux and open source.The CSIA (an industry group, likely funded in part by Microsoft) claims (in a "report") the govt preference for open source is harming the software business.Lu says open source is high quality, low cost, and can coexist with Microsoft, openness is good. Lu cites (but no actual citation info is given, no link, no name, no exact quote, no date, nothing) that someone at Microsoft said Linux and Windows should co-exist.CSIA says GPL destroys profitability. Lu says they misunderstand the GPL, admits China linux businesses are unprofitable, and claims that community and international collaboration is needed.CSIA spews FUD... patents might destroy linux. Lu replies that proprietary software faces more patent risks.Lu says community in China is needed.The other article is pretty much the same thing rehashed and edited down a little.Pretty much more of the same. Linux/open source/free software advocates say one thing, Microsoft shills say the opposite. [ Reply to ThisRe:Article summary by westlake (Score:2) Monday October 24, @12:07AM A little backwards (Score:2) by Hershmire (41460) on Sunday October 23, @03:15PM (#13858902) (http://www.blindskier.com/) Does anybody else notice how silly it is to suggest true competition between the two should take place in a communist country? [ Reply to ThisRe:A little backwards by Jussi K. Kojootti (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @04:04PM Obvious answer? (Score:1) by adolfojp (730818) on Sunday October 23, @03:18PM (#13858912) I believe that there is a right tool for each job.Linux is great but Windows will still be needed for running apps like those from Adobe-Macromedia. Of course, you could also use Macs but those can be expensive.Cheers,AdolfoPS. No, Gimp and Inkspace don't cut it. Yes, there will be other apps that Linux wont be able to run. [ Reply to ThisRe:Obvious answer? by 0xC2 (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:42PMRe:Obvious answer? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @03:55PMRe:Obvious answer? by Hosiah (Score:2) Monday October 24, @12:14AM Independence Day Transcript (Score:1) by tektek (829733) on Sunday October 23, @03:37PM (#13859040) Linux: Can we negotiate a truce? is there room for co-existance?[...]Can there be peace between us?Miscrosoft (with alien voice): Peace? No peace.Linux: What is it you want us to do?Microsoft (with alien voice): Die. [ Reply to This Distrust Of The West (Score:3, Insightful) by Weedlekin (836313) on Sunday October 23, @03:48PM (#13859114) I wonder how much of the Chinese determination to use open source, develop their own microprocessors, and generally make moves towards implementing an internally self-sustaining IT infrastructure may be driven by a profound distrust of Western governments and companies. After all, both have treated China pretty badly in the past, and they probably feel that we only allow them to trade with us today if they play by rules which benefit us far more than them. Add to this the fact that the US in particular has displayed a penchant for suddenly prohibiting the sale of certain technologies to countries that it doesn't like, and you have a set of very good reasons why the idea of not becoming dependent on Microsoft, Intel, or any other Western company could look very attractive to them.It is also likely that they are telling the truth about Linux' better security being a key feature for them. Totalitarian regimes are invariably paranoid, and even if MS could prove that the versions of Windows being sold in China haven't got back doors that the US government can use to spy on them, the fact that it is rife with keyloggers, bots, etc. is pretty good evidence that the CIA or similar could infect their systems with spying software quite easily. Far safer then to use not only an OS with a pretty good security track record in its own right, but also one with source code that they can examine for freedom from back doors, and modify with their own specialised security features if they want.Read up on the history of Sino-Western relations over the last couple of centuries, and then ask yourselves one question: if you were them, would you trust us not to totally fuck them over if there was a buck in it somewhere? [ Reply to ThisRe:Distrust Of The West by SleeknStealthy (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @05:45PM Embattled Linux (Score:3, Funny) by Ranger (1783) on Sunday October 23, @04:43PM (#13859456) Is that a new distribution? [ Reply to This Bang bang you lose, round eye! (Score:4, Interesting) by FishandChips (695645) on Sunday October 23, @05:05PM (#13859597) It sure looks as if Microsoft is faced with a lose-lose in China and most likely the other major developing powers. Essentially it boils down to the fact that those powers use piracy as a political tool. The argument is really "Let us use Windows on a pirated basis, or at least a token-cost basis, until our economies are stronger otherwise we will take up Linux en masse and you will lose this huge market forever." What is left unsaid is that as soon as their economies are stronger, these powers will take up Linux or something else en masse anyway. They are never going to make themselves dependent on a US corporation. In the meantime, Microsoft is left doing darn near give-away deals (as in Indonesia) or issuing dinky cutdown editions for these markets that fool no one.Perhaps what we are really seeing is the beginning of a Microsoft withdrawal from swathes of the world that will accelerate in the years ahead. Microsoft's bastions are North America and Europe. The colony in China turned out to an expensive venture that led nowhere. The locals had other plans. They decided to produce not merely their own software but their own computers too. [ Reply to This Tell it to Microsoft (Score:2) by Cyno (85911) on Sunday October 23, @05:06PM (#13859604) (Last Journal: Monday April 25, @08:47PM) They're the ones with all the patents and lawyers and restrictive EULAs. [ Reply to This Ah yes.... (Score:1) by Chiisu (462604) on Sunday October 23, @05:06PM (#13859606) An open-source OS adopted by a Communist government /sing w/ me, ironyyyyyyyyy [ Reply to This Great Thought! (Score:2) by rlp (11898) on Sunday October 23, @06:13PM (#13859971) "openness increases the trustworthiness, said Lu."Might want to mention that to your government, Mr. Lu. On second thought, you might want to wait till you're out of the country before you mention that to your government. [ Reply to This Linux & Microsoft in China (Score:1) by john666seven (909295) on Sunday October 23, @07:18PM (#13860276) (http://www.techjohngeekeducated-mensa-old.info/ | Last Journal: Sunday October 09, @04:02PM) Yes, they can CO-Exist, however, China is a communist country and one of the few where those ideas work for the most part. Therefore providing a free operating system for the people is the way that they will eventually g0----with Microsoft mostly for the new crowd that is in business for themselves and doing business for the US and Canada--like programming for Microsoft.I would like to point out that not all programs for Linux are free. If you don't want a canned program,you have to pay the programmers, so people DO GET PAID. [ Reply to This Coexist? Not likely (Score:1) by diogenes57 (43063) <[dehua1234] [at] [yahoo.com.cn]> on Sunday October 23, @08:11PM (#13860523) (http://slashdot.org/) In China 99.9999% of computers run Windows.99.999% of them run pirated Windows.Why would the Chinese switch to a free OS (as in FOSS) when, to them, Windows is also free (as in pirated)?It would take MS enforcing their licensing to cause a change so great as that. And what are the chances of that when MS knows they will still make money on all of their other products that are too difficult to pirate, secure, or install without MS's help? They will turn a blind eye to the nearly 100% pirated desktop OS when the companies that use the desktops must pay for their servers, etc. And when the Chinese government itself is using pirated Windows, good luck trying to stop the average person. [ Reply to This Take ten steps back; look at the BIG picture (Score:2) by Hosiah (849792) on Monday October 24, @12:38AM (#13861557)