no reason to be here writes "An article at CNN.com is reporting on the FDA granting approval to the first ever transplant of fetal stem cells into human brains. The stem cells will be transplanted into six children suffering from Batten disease, a rare, always fatal, genetic neurological illness, which renders its victims blind and speechless before finally paralyzing them and killing them." From the article: "The stem cells to be transplanted in the brain aren't human embryonic stem cells, which are derived from days-old embryos. Instead, the cells are immature neural cells that are destined to turn into the mature cells that makeup a fully formed brain. Parkinson's disease patients and stroke victims have received transplants of fully formed brain cells before, but the malleable brain cells involved here have never before been implanted."Ads_xl=0;Ads_yl=0;Ads_xp='';Ads_yp='';Ads_xp1='';Ads_yp1='';Ads_par='';Ads_cnturl='';Ads_prf='page=article';Ads_channels='RON_P6_IMU';Ads_wrd='biotech,science';Ads_kid=0;Ads_bid=0;Ads_sec=0; FDA Approves First Brain Stem Cell Transplant Log in/Create an Account | Top | 90 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 90 comments 0: 84 comments 1: 61 comments 2: 42 comments 3: 15 comments 4: 10 comments 5: 7 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. A step forward? (Score:4, Interesting) by ghstomahawks (847102) on Saturday October 22, @10:54PM (#13855466) This could be an amazing step forward for the advance of this field of science, or an amazing step backwards for it. The question isn't whether or not it'll work, it's how it will be handled by everyone involved. It won't take much to make enemies on here! [ Reply to ThisRe:A step forward? by Bit_Squeezer (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:20AM I do research on Batten Disease (Score:5, Informative) by Seoulstriker (748895) on Sunday October 23, @12:21AM (#13855839) It is an interesting therapeutic strategy to inject stem cells foreign to the suffering patient to alleviate the problems with the patient's own DNA. The cause of Batten Disease is a series of mutations in membrane transporters with unknown function. While the mutations affect all body tissues, it is powerfully destructive to neurons and so there is the typical accumulation of autofluorescent pigments (the so-called ceroid lipofuscinosis neuronal).I think the most important lesson here is that injection of stem cells and the differentiation of those cells and eventual incorporation into the functional neural network is astounding. However, the limits of the therapy are quite evident, since the patient's entire brain suffers from the accumulation of lipofuscin. You'd have to inject enough stem cells to regenerate an entire brain, which is on the scale of billions (could be off by a few factors of ten though....).As for the cellular and genetic basis for the accumulation of pigments, I'll have to get back to you on that when I conclude my research. :-) [ Reply to This | ParentRe:I do research on Batten Disease by Spy der Mann (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:46AM Really? (Score:5, Funny) by connah0047 (850585) on Saturday October 22, @10:55PM (#13855475) which renders its victims blind and speechless before finally paralyzing them and killing them... Sounds like marriage. [ Reply to ThisRe:Really? by xerid (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:41PM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Identity problem (Score:5, Insightful) by gringer (252588) on Saturday October 22, @10:58PM (#13855486) "I'm sure there is no threat to anyone's identity," said Arthur Caplan, director of the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Bioethics. "But we are starting down that road."Is this guy suggesting that you could change a person's identity by injecting stem cells into their brain? It brings the idea of brainwashing to a whole new level. [ Reply to ThisRe:Identity problem by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:23PMRe:Identity problem by Zeebs (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:47PMRe:Identity problem by moviepig.com (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:52PMRe:Identity problem by novus ordo (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:02AMRe:Identity problem by Aaron_Harwood (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:17AM Cells from miscarriages and abortions... (Score:5, Insightful) by Dria Rain (924729) on Saturday October 22, @10:59PM (#13855489) Though there's legitimate ethical debate on abortions, I don't think this is much different than having your organs donated after you die. [ Reply to ThisRe:Cells from miscarriages and abortions... by slashdotnickname (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:34AM Re:Cells from miscarriages and abortions... (Score:5, Insightful) by AxelBoldt (1490) on Sunday October 23, @12:02AM (#13855771) (http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/) Have you considered that some of us came to have different views of abortion through learning that we ourselves nearly got aborted?That can of course easily be turned into an argument against all forms of birth control ("some of us learned that we ourselves nearly were prevented from being conceived altogether!"), indeed it is an argument against allowing anyone of reproductive age to spend a waking minute not having unprotected sex. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Cells from miscarriages and abortions... by platypibri (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:38AMRe:Cells from miscarriages and abortions... by Laser Lou (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:42AMRe:Cells from miscarriages and abortions... by ashot (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:51AM2 replies beneath your current threshold. what kind of logic is this? (Score:4, Insightful) by bogaboga (793279) on Saturday October 22, @11:03PM (#13855512) "...The stem cells to be transplanted in the brain aren't human embryonic stem cells, which are derived from days-old embryos. Instead, the cells are immature neural cells that are destined to turn into the mature cells that makeup a fully formed brain." I have issue with this statement. The question is: -Is it possible to make "human matter" from non-human matter? I doubt. With this kind of reasoning, I am beginning to doubt whether we as a human race actually understand when life begins. Again, using this kind of reasoning, a scientist could argue that sperm(s) cannot be anything human since these immature neural cells are not human matter at all anyway. But we all know that sperm(s) help form what is known as human beings today. [ Reply to ThisRe:what kind of logic is this? by Overzeetop (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:10PM3 replies beneath your current threshold. Um, a little misleading in the intro... (Score:5, Insightful) by Overzeetop (214511) on Saturday October 22, @11:06PM (#13855526) (Last Journal: Thursday December 09, @10:25AM) Aside from ripping the first four paragraphs verbatim, it says ITFA:"What's more, some of the brain cells to be implanted will be derived from aborted fetuses, which Caplan also said raised ethical concerns for some."so the whole misdirection of not being embrionic is "technical" in nature for the right-to-life crowd.Anyway, it all seems academic until you read the bit at the bottom about the fellow who is going to enroll his 5 year old son, in hopes of not having to see his child die a horrible, slow death right in front of his eyes, with nothing he can do to save him. I think you have to be a parent to understand the enormity of the situation - I know for a fact that before I had a child, I wouldn't have experienced that "oh, my god" sinking feeling when reading his comments. I hope it works, and I fear that it works.Why do I fear that it works? Politics. If it works, there will be a "cure" for this horrible affliction. And it will likely require stem cells from pre-term fetuses, at least initially. If there's only one thing I can think of that's worse that seeing your child die slowly and painfully in front of you while you can't do anything to help, it would be having your child die slowly and painfully in front of you, knowing that there is a cure and not being able to get the cure. The fact that it would be the "religious" right that would block you from saving your own child is just and extra bone to try and swallow. [ Reply to This Re:Um, a little misleading in the intro... (Score:5, Interesting) by Daniel Dvorkin (106857) * on Saturday October 22, @11:17PM (#13855564) (http://www.sff.net/people/Daniel.Dvorkin) I fear the politics too, but I have to admit to a nasty little surge of glee at the thought of the "pro-life" crowd getting their hypocrisy and self-righteousness thrown back in their faces in such a dramatic manner.Just to make it clear where I'm coming from: I'm a parent too, and although my child is healthy and will hopefully remain so her whole life, I can tell you that if she ever does need some kind of treatment that someone objects to on religious grounds, that someone had better stay the hell out of my way. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by omeomi (Score:3) Saturday October 22, @11:21PMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by BocaJuniors (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:45PMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by ozmanjusri (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:30AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by MBCook (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:01AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by omeomi (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:19AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by AxelBoldt (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:50AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by Now.Imperfect (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:32AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by Jeff DeMaagd (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:46AMUm, a little misleading in your response by alandd (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:36AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by TheStupidOne (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:38AMRe:Um, a little misleading in the intro... by sjames (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:41AM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Bush is scheduled too (Score:4, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Saturday October 22, @11:09PM (#13855532) George is looking forward to his first human brain cells. [ Reply to This Hollywood is rubbing its hands with glee (Score:2) by MilenCent (219397) <johnwh@@@gmail...com> on Saturday October 22, @11:12PM (#13855546) (http://www.hiddenglade.com/blog/) How long before we get some kind of lame-ass movie story about someone who receives donor brain cells from an unborn embryo and rapidly become EvIl InCaRnAtE? [ Reply to ThisRe:Hollywood is rubbing its hands with glee by sunwukong (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:00AMRe:Hollywood is rubbing its hands with glee by Bit_Squeezer (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:33AM Finally! (Score:2) by NightWulf (672561) on Saturday October 22, @11:14PM (#13855550) Finally a use for my sliver of Hitler's brain! These six children will be the new Boys of Brazil! [ Reply to This Brain - stem cells (Score:3, Interesting) by saskboy (600063) on Saturday October 22, @11:15PM (#13855555) (http://www.abandonedstuff.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday October 20, @11:44AM) The title is a bit ambiguous isn't it? Brain stem, or stem cells, or brain stem stem cells?But I thought that the thing that made stem cells special was that they could be encouraged to grow into any other type of human cell? Or are there special stem cells just for brains, brain stems, or spinal nerves? [ Reply to ThisRe:Brain - stem cells by cloudmaster (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:27PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. wow. (Score:2, Interesting) by CDPatten (907182) on Saturday October 22, @11:20PM (#13855578) sometimes you have to just stop and think about the magnitude of scale something like this is. Just incredible. We are very fortunate to live in this time, I can't wait to see what happens this century, hopefully we can avoid blowing ourselfs up before we start discovering the really cool stuff... [ Reply to ThisRe:wow. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:25PMRe:wow. by CDPatten (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:38PMRe:wow. by TedCheshireAcad (Score:2) Saturday October 22, @11:43PMRe:wow. by Vegeta99 (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:20AMRe:wow. by xerid (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:58PMRe:wow. by xerid (Score:1) Saturday October 22, @11:47PM Yikes, this is kind of scary (Score:3, Insightful) by zappepcs (820751) on Saturday October 22, @11:51PM (#13855723) (http://www.asomaworld.net/zinn | Last Journal: Tuesday October 04, @08:28PM) All the good comments aside, could this end up like a cure for the terminally stupid?If its possible to cure brain diseases with this process(s), couldn't you also fix things like bad memory? or turn people in to 'lawn mower men' kind of people? What happens when you augment the wetware of 'normal' people? Would they stop smoking? Could you break peoples ingrained habits with a wetware upgrade?The implications are way more than anyone has mentioned yet...If you look at human minds/brains as a wetware machine, then some very odd thinking patterns have been (more or less) shown to be wetware problems (epilepsy etc.) and if that is so, can we cure all kinds of psychosis with a wetware upgrade? How does that affect our views of god, humanity, and disease? What if we can make people smarter than Einstein? Science fiction stories have had fields days with this kind of stuff.If we can augment or repair natural decay, could we also tinker with the endocrine system in general? Perhaps diabetes is just a failed ROM chip initially? Would Thyroidism just be a Flash chip change?This is indeed exciting, but also very scary. We have had stories about countries not getting enough vaccines for aids and now H5N1 etc. What kind of abuses can this lead to, and how do we set out rules for how this sort of thing should be dealt with?All we need is one Dr Moreaux (sp) to mess up and everything could get very whacked out indeed.I'm rather perplexed at the implications. [ Reply to ThisRe:Yikes, this is kind of scary by novus ordo (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:07AM Could sperm cells be used instead? (Score:1) by CyricZ (887944) on Saturday October 22, @11:54PM (#13855737) Could sperm cells be used instead of fetal stem cells? Or perhaps sperm cells combined with ova outside of the womb? [ Reply to ThisRe:Could sperm cells be used instead? by novus ordo (Score:1) Sunday October 23, @12:09AM The religious / pro life argument is insensible (Score:3, Interesting) by whogben (919335) on Saturday October 22, @11:57PM (#13855754) Sure, even if you believe a fetus is a human being - if it comes to one life for another, the potential to be a human shouldn't surpass an actual, living human in need of help!The counterclaim has sometimes been: We aren't gods! Giving life to Jimmy at the expense of the fetus is arrogance in the face of God!Wait a moment - when has it not been ok to choose one life over another? Where was the religious right during the cold war? Or the Iraq war? Or capital punishment? Surprise - life vs life decisions are made all the time, for a variety of reasons, convenience among others - by those same people who will tell you that they can't choose in the case of "fetus 4971 Vrs Jimmy" [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. im very glad, (Score:2, Interesting) by shrewd (830067) on Sunday October 23, @12:10AM (#13855801) advancements in these life-saving feilds always seems to get stunted by idiotic activists and religious people, somehow saving lives offends god and we should stop it. don't mod this funny, because it's not. [ Reply to ThisRe:im very glad, by iggymanz (Score:2) Sunday October 23, @12:45AM No matter... (Score:3, Insightful) by wingsofchai (817999) on Sunday October 23, @12:26AM (#13855862) Whether you agree with this or not this should strike you as an enormous event likely of the millennium should this be successful. This single event may open the doors to ethical debates we've only seen the tips of, and in the end it may not just stop at words, but violence. One side would argue that violence is already occurring just to do it at all. [ Reply to This Rights (Score:2, Insightful) by hhawk (26580) on Sunday October 23, @12:38AM (#13855901) (http://www.hawknest.com/ | Last Journal: Tuesday October 05, @05:11PM) #0 This is a major advance that we are at the point of being able to do this type of experiment; the more we learn about our bodies the better our lives will be.#1 I think the rights of the living out weight the rights of the unborn.#2 Let's be honest, EVERY medical advance for the last 500 or 1000 years was SEEN AS moral "issue" for those deeply religous including most Christians. I think they are all ethnically bankrupt for accepting ANY modern medical treatment. True Christians should take the point of view of the Christian Scientist movement and leave ANY healing in GODS hands; to do anything LESS than that, is not to accept both GOD and Jesus. [ Reply to This The real question is... (Score:2) by slashname3 (739398) on Sunday October 23, @12:46AM (#13855933) Can we volunteer upper management for a brain cell injection? I think there are plenty of people in the office willing to chip in to cover the costs. Even if this does not fix them it would keep them from making stupid decisions for a short period of time while they are in the hospital. ;) [ Reply to This Is this going to.... (Score:2) by ericdano (113424) on Sunday October 23, @12:47AM (#13855935) (http://www.jazz-sax.com/) Is this going to cut down on the number of duplicate stories on Slashdot? [ Reply to This Bittersweet... (Score:1) by Now.Imperfect (917684) on Sunday October 23, @12:50AM (#13855948) I'm not gonna lie and say "this is totally wrong!" but I still don't think it is right.My point: The fetus is not a being-in-itself, it is enroute, developing into a human. it has the potentiality of humanity but not an actual humanity, so thus it is a being-for-itself. Now only humans are being-for-itself; so there is a contradiction here. The dying child is a human, being-for-itself, it has the potentiality of a dead being, but the actuality of an alive being. All being strive become a being-in-itself, death is this state for this child. Thus the child dying will reach it's goal of life by dying.Thus I deduce two points:1) Doing nothing places each being into their respective roles. Granted once the first child is human they will gain another potentiality as a side-effect of being-for-itself. But each child is in their logical, unaltered, natural states.2) Is anything accomplished by exchanging roles? No. Of course parents are going to say otherwise, but they are bias.on a second note, I envy the dying child. From a philisophical point of view they are the most lucky of us. [ Reply to This Re:The problem (Score:2) by Otter (3800) on Saturday October 22, @11:10PM (#13855536) (Last Journal: Monday October 17, @10:42AM) I agree about the Koreans, but this is a Palo Alto-based biotech company, not those guys. [ Reply to This | Parent Re:Why fucking bother? (Score:2) by UserGoogol (623581) on Sunday October 23, @12:47AM (#13855938) Natural selection has had its turn. Now it's time for intelligent design to give it a shot. [ Reply to This | Parent11 replies beneath your current threshold.