blamanj writes "Nikolaus Kopernik, aka Copernicus, father of modern heliocentric theory, was buried in Frombork Cathedral (Poland) after he died in 1543. However, the cathedral's tombs were a mess, and it was unclear exactly where he was. Archaeologists now believe they've found his remains, and are planning to do DNA testing to verify. The search began in 2004."Ads_xl=0;Ads_yl=0;Ads_xp='';Ads_yp='';Ads_xp1='';Ads_yp1='';Ads_par='';Ads_cnturl='';Ads_prf='page=article';Ads_channels='RON_P6_IMU';Ads_wrd='space,science';Ads_kid=0;Ads_bid=0;Ads_sec=0; Search for Copernicus Over Log in/Create an Account | Top | 175 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 175 comments 0: 168 comments 1: 111 comments 2: 66 comments 3: 32 comments 4: 19 comments 5: 11 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. will they dig up the bones? (Score:2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @03:27AM (#13948556) and auction them off on Ebay? [ Reply to This Re:will they dig up the bones? (Score:4, Informative) by Phroggy (441) * <`moc.yggorhp' `ta' `1todhsals'> on Friday November 04, @06:02AM (#13948891) (http://phroggy.com/) and auction them off on Ebay?That's actually against eBay's policy [ebay.com]. [ Reply to This | Parent check out that portrait (Score:5, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @03:29AM (#13948561) Do you get the impression that old Kopernick was the sort of chap that would run down the street screaming pretty much anything, and maybe he got the heliocentric theory thing right just by coincidence?"Apples will set your house on fire!""Birds and dogs mate and give birth to lizards!""By rubbing together two sticks, I created cheese!""The Earth revolves around the sun!""Bannanas are SATAN!!! SATAN!!!""Abolish underwear!!!" [ Reply to This Re:check out that portrait (Score:5, Insightful) by Vo0k (760020) on Friday November 04, @03:56AM (#13948612) (Last Journal: Wednesday August 18, @07:52AM) Nope. He did a lot of research in order to present the theory. Being a priest, he wasn't in such deep shit as Galileo or Giordano Bruno, but still he was smart enough to have his finding published after he died :) [ Reply to This | ParentRe:check out that portrait by cbv (Score:3) Friday November 04, @05:37AM Re:check out that portrait (Score:5, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @06:17AM (#13948925) Umm. Not quite.You should not apply current views of knowledge to earlier times when the entire paradigm wa different. Nowadays we prize independent and inovative thinking - as the Greeks did around 500 BC. During the Middle Ages and up to the Renaissance, however, this was not the case. All human knowledge was believed to have already been revealed, either in the Bible or the 'wisdom of ancients', and the job of an intellectual was to extract this knowledge.So prior authority was not only important - it was critical. You HAD to cite such authority for your ideas, otherwise they could not be accepted. Producing your own ideas with no authoritative backing was seen as a sin similar to fabricating your base data nowadays. Intellectual giants like Roger Bacon fought against this approach in favour of the experimental method, but it was not really overcome until the 1700s. This is why all writings of this period cite earlier authority.School histories of Galileo and others are always done in complete ignorance of the mediaeval mindset, and end up portraying all his opponents as a set of unthinking morons - they were most decidedly not. However, I suppose simple ideas make better television! [ Reply to This | ParentRe:check out that portrait by cbv (Score:1) Friday November 04, @06:54AMRe:check out that portrait by anonymo (Score:1) Friday November 04, @12:57PMRe:check out that portrait by Peristarkawan (Score:1) Friday November 04, @10:13PMRe:check out that portrait by Peristarkawan (Score:1) Friday November 04, @10:25PMMod parent up by Darkman, Walkin Dude (Score:2) Friday November 04, @07:58AMRe:Mod parent up by anonymo (Score:1) Friday November 04, @01:02PMscience emerges from numerology by peter303 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @09:33AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:check out that portrait by anonymo (Score:1) Friday November 04, @02:35PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:check out that portrait (Score:4, Informative) by Digz (90264) on Friday November 04, @08:27AM (#13949272) Actually, Copernicus was encouraged by the Church. Galileo's fault was that he insisted on calling those people who didn't accept his theory (purported to be fact, even though he could not prove it) morons - including the Pope. During his trial, it was repeatedly stated that the charges would be dropped if he could provide proof for his theory - but he could not. The Church also offered a middle ground - accepting heliocentrism as a hypothesis - even superior to the geocentric one - until more proof was forthcoming.http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/apologet ics/ap0138.html [catholiceducation.org]http://www.catholic.net/rcc/Periodicals/Issues/Gal ileoAffair.html [catholic.net]Can we let this myth die? [ Reply to This | ParentRe:check out that portrait by m0nstr42 (Score:3) Friday November 04, @09:35AMRe:check out that portrait by dylan_- (Score:3) Friday November 04, @10:02AMRe:check out that portrait by anonymo (Score:2) Friday November 04, @02:07PMRe:check out that portrait by Clod9 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @03:22PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:check out that portrait by Sique (Score:2) Friday November 04, @03:28PMRe:check out that portrait by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 04, @10:03AMRe:check out that portrait by scheming daemons (Score:1) Friday November 04, @11:13AMRe:check out that portrait by operagost (Score:1) Friday November 04, @11:39AMRe:check out that portrait by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 04, @11:26AMRe:check out that portrait by yukk (Score:1) Friday November 04, @11:25AMNice Try...but I don't think so... by Striver (Score:1) Friday November 04, @11:30AMRe:Nice Try...but I don't think so... by japhmi (Score:2) Friday November 04, @01:02PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.2 replies beneath your current threshold.Actually, Yep by Zevon 2000 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @01:57PMRe:check out that portrait by technoextreme (Score:2) Friday November 04, @07:22PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.parent not troll by janek78 (Score:1) Friday November 04, @04:25AMRe:check out that portrait by johansalk (Score:2) Friday November 04, @08:18PM First Prime Factorization Post (Score:1, Offtopic) by 2*2*3*75011 (900132) on Friday November 04, @03:32AM (#13948566) 1543 is prime. [ Reply to ThisRe:First Prime Factorization Post by stud9920 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @04:12AMRe:First Prime Factorization Post by Anonymous Coward (Score:3) Friday November 04, @08:36AMRe:First Prime Factorization Post by Tolkien (Score:1) Friday November 04, @09:07AM He looks a bit like.... (Score:3, Funny) by teewurstmann (755953) on Friday November 04, @03:34AM (#13948572) (http://iedb.org/) ... James Cromwell [imdb.com], the actor from the movie "Babe" [imdb.com], you know, the one with the talking pig...I bet Copernicus couldn't understand or train pigs, but he sure understood that the earth isn't the center of the universe. [ Reply to ThisRe:He looks a bit like.... by micpp (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:01AMRe:He looks a bit like.... by Mikkeles (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:28AMCoulda been worse by Albinoman (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:35AMRe:He looks a bit like.... by lotus_out_law (Score:1) Friday November 04, @06:01AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Why should we care? (Score:5, Funny) by gowen (141411) <slashdot@gwowen.freeserve.co.uk> on Friday November 04, @03:35AM (#13948575) (Last Journal: Thursday October 31, @02:07PM) The world doesn't revolve around Copernicus, you know... [ Reply to ThisRe:Why should we care? by ehiris (Score:1) Friday November 04, @03:55AMRe:Why should we care? by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 04, @04:13AM Re:Why should we care? (Score:5, Funny) by Deanalator (806515) <piercede@pdx.edu> on Friday November 04, @04:26AM (#13948690) (http://web.pdx.edu/~piercede) Well, if we want to make an all-star physicist basketball team, we don't want to clone the wrong guy now do we? [ Reply to This | Parent1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Why should we care? by JesterXXV (Score:3) Friday November 04, @08:48AMRe:Why should we care? by Jsprat23 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @09:19AMRe:Why should we care? by UTPinky (Score:2) Friday November 04, @11:02AM2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:Why should we care? by dascandy (Score:1) Friday November 04, @03:57AMRe:Why should we care? by tinpan (Score:1) Friday November 04, @08:47AM2 replies beneath your current threshold. DNA Testing... (Score:5, Insightful) by MrFlannel (762587) on Friday November 04, @03:38AM (#13948582) Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.Alright, so, they track down known relatives... problem is, 500 years? Thats what... 25 generations?"Yes, this man is Copernicus's Great-great-great-....-great-grandson. We can see they both have green eyes. This woman is his great-great-...-great-granddaughter, twice removed. We can see by this DNA that they're both left handed. So, of course, these must be is bones!"Not to mention he didn't have any kids of his own. Which just quarters the probabiliy of similarities.Or did I miss something? Anyone know how accurate this will actually be? [ Reply to ThisRe:DNA Testing... by gxv (Score:3) Friday November 04, @03:48AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:DNA Testing... (Score:4, Interesting) by MichaelSmith (789609) on Friday November 04, @03:51AM (#13948602) (http://www.zeropoint.com.au/) Anyone know how accurate this will actually be?Seeing that they claim to be able to extract DNA from these bones, I imagine they could raid the burial sites of his known relatives of the day, and their descendants, right up to the present day.That way you would get a trail of DNA from the past to the present, which would make matching easier. [ Reply to This | Parent2 replies beneath your current threshold. Re:DNA Testing... (Score:5, Informative) by Oxen (879661) on Friday November 04, @04:10AM (#13948658) I haven't read the article, nor am I at all informed as to the specifics of this case. However, they may be able to find a relative with the same mitochondrial DNA or the same Y-chromosome as Copernicus. Both of these pass unchanged from generation to generation. A person only inherits mitochondrial DNA from his mother. Using this principle, if we know someone who has descended entirely maternally from a common female ancestor of both him and Copernicus, we can check to see if it is Copernicus. The same thing goes for Y-chromosomes and men. This is done surprisingly frequently with historical figures. It was done with the Thomas Jefferson/Slave [pbs.org] thing and also with Anastasia Romanov. There is a caveat, however. You cannot distinguish between relatives, so even if it tests positive, it could be Copernicus's brother or another relative in the same genetic umbrella. -Mark [ Reply to This | ParentRe:A Cynical Response... by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Friday November 04, @06:29AMRe:DNA Testing... by NewKimAll (Score:1) Friday November 04, @09:29AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Re:DNA Testing... (Score:4, Informative) by Max Nugget (581772) on Friday November 04, @04:13AM (#13948664) >> Yes, well, we've got these bones. And we're going to test them to make sure they match with the known DNA sequence of Copernicus.From TFA:"The grave was in bad condition and not all remains were found, Gassowski said, adding that his team will try to find relatives of Copernicus to do more accurate DNA identification."I imagine they're talking about finding the graves of his dead relatives, not living descendants. If you find a skeleton that you have independent reasons to believe is some particular relative of his, and the DNA from that skeleton happens to corroborate that relationship when compared to the "Copernicus" DNA, you've increased the accuracy of the Copernicus skull substantially, because the chances of the relative being misidentified AND happening to have the correct DNA relationship with the suspected Copernicus DNA is miniscule, so long as the evidence leading you to the relative's remains was unrelated to the evidence that pointed you to Copernicus' remains, and provided the remains aren't buried, for example, right next to his (if they are then you've got nothing because any group of people buried together are likely to be related).And, not from TFA (from me):They may also be able to examine the DNA for certain genetic features that match up with aesthetic and non-aesthetic traits that are historically known about him.I was about to say they could also compare the DNA attributes with the aesthetic attributes of the skull, but then I slapped myself in the head for not realizing it would be self-referential since that's where the DNA came from. =) [ Reply to This | Parent2 replies beneath your current threshold.Re:DNA Testing... by drewxhawaii (Score:1) Friday November 04, @04:27AMRe:DNA Testing... by Vo0k (Score:2) Friday November 04, @04:34AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:DNA Testing... by Nyh (Score:2) Friday November 04, @07:36AMRe:DNA Testing... by LaughingCoder (Score:2) Friday November 04, @07:50AMRe:DNA Testing... by terrymr (Score:2) Friday November 04, @02:55PM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Comments and Documentation (Score:5, Funny) by GodOfCode (878337) on Friday November 04, @03:39AM (#13948584) This shows us how important it is to properly comment and document the code we write! [ Reply to This how they found him... (Score:1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @03:39AM (#13948585) did they use copernic search? [ Reply to This He must still be alive! (Score:5, Interesting) by stirz (839003) on Friday November 04, @03:41AM (#13948589) I've seen two photos of the reconstructed head over at German "Spiegel online [spiegel.de]" and I the first thing that came to my mind was: "That's James Cromwell". Just compare some photos [google.com] on your own. The similarity is really amazing:-)Regards,Stirz [ Reply to ThisRe:He must still be alive! by clockmaker (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:15AMRe:He must still be alive! by stirz (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:41AMRe:He must still be alive! by clem (Score:2) Friday November 04, @12:07PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Finally! (Score:5, Funny) by nihilogos (87025) on Friday November 04, @03:52AM (#13948605) I'm sure we'll all sleep better tonight. [ Reply to This I didn't even know he was missing? (Score:1, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @04:06AM (#13948636) I didn't even know he was missing? [ Reply to This This just in... (Score:5, Funny) by aussie_a (778472) on Friday November 04, @04:08AM (#13948648) (http://gutterflycomix.com/thequeensland | Last Journal: Friday February 11, @04:09AM) the search for people who care has now begun. [ Reply to ThisRe:This just in... by Auckerman (Score:2) Friday November 04, @05:48AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. DNA testing? (Score:1) by the bluebrain (443451) on Friday November 04, @04:13AM (#13948665) ... so maybe they can clone him. And set him up ... in orbit around something.But seriously - how do they test his DNA? "Yup. It's DNA alright!". Do they compare it to a vial of authentic Copernican spit they acquired on 5th avenue? Do they round up his offspring and run a poll? (or should I just RTFA and shuddup?) [ Reply to This Wanted Dead or Alive (Score:2, Funny) by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 04, @04:17AM (#13948674) This man has been accused of corrupting the youth by claiming the Sun is at the centre of the Universe and by instigating revolutions. Considered extremely dangerous. If you've seen this man, please call your local law enforcement or scientist. [ Reply to ThisIntelligent Falling by stud9920 (Score:2) Friday November 04, @07:29AMWe're not in Kansas anymore by totallygeek (Score:3) Friday November 04, @08:02AM Damned smartass historians. (Score:4, Interesting) by Vo0k (760020) on Friday November 04, @04:18AM (#13948676) (Last Journal: Wednesday August 18, @07:52AM) I'm Pole, and obviously we had more focus on Copernicus in our schools than the US kids (not to mention our schools serve about thrice the amount of knowledge...)So we were taught the life and findings of Copernicus, and as for his death, we were informed that his corpse lies in the Frombork Cathedral.Now I wonder if any kid on a visit to Frombork asked the teacher to see Copernicus' tomb, what would they do? "ups... well, we KNOW he is in the cathedral... somewhere..." [ Reply to ThisRe:Damned smartass historians. by AvantLegion (Score:2) Friday November 04, @11:33AMRe:Damned smartass historians. by SnarfQuest (Score:1) Friday November 04, @04:11PMRe:Damned smartass historians. by SharpFang (Score:2) Friday November 04, @11:41AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.5 replies beneath your current threshold. It is now official - Astronomy is Dying (Score:3, Funny) by bugg (65930) * on Friday November 04, @04:35AM (#13948714) One more crippling bombshell hit the already beleaguered astronomy community when slashdot confirmed that Copernicus, in fact, is dead.You don't have to be a Galileo to predict astronomy's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Astronomy faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for astronomy because Astronomy is Dying. Astronomers are the most endangered of them all, with over 90% of all great astronomers dead. There can no longer be any doubt: Astronomy is Dying. Let's keep to the facts and look at the numbers. [ Reply to ThisRe:It is now official - Astronomy is Dying by micpp (Score:1) Friday November 04, @05:44AMBreaking news... by geobeck (Score:1) Friday November 04, @10:34AMRe:It is now official - Astronomy is Dying by Cervantes (Score:2) Friday November 04, @01:51PM As the old verse says (Score:4, Interesting) by Flying pig (925874) on Friday November 04, @05:08AM (#13948779) (Apologies for spelling errors this is from memory)Der Himmel nicht die Erde umgehtWie die Gelehrten meynenMuss jeden Mann sein Wurm gewissKopernikus des seinen(roughly The heavens do not go round the Earth as the learned held. Every man will get eaten by worms, even Copernicus) [ Reply to ThisRe:As the old verse says by slavemowgli (Score:2) Friday November 04, @02:14PM Burn Heretic Burn (Score:1) by chiok (858005) on Friday November 04, @05:24AM (#13948803) Father of modern heliocentric theory?BLASPHEMER!!! BURN HIM!! (Cremation will do) [ Reply to This I happen to live in Via Copernico, in Milan Italy. (Score:2, Interesting) by spamhog (705867) on Friday November 04, @05:36AM (#13948834) (http://filippo.ru.ru/) ...and Leopold von Sacher-Masochgrew up on Copernicus Street in Lvov,which I think was part of Austria-Hungary at the time.We have a 6-m wide paraboloid for space comms right atop the condo here.Time to plan a street party.Who do I write to if I want to borrow a relic for the occasion?A phalanx or a pair of teeth would do fine. [ Reply to This trekkie quote: (Score:1) by toQDuj (806112) on Friday November 04, @06:32AM (#13948949) (http://www.stack.nl/~brian/index.html | Last Journal: Wednesday October 19, @08:55AM) He's dead jim, but not as we know it. not as we know it. not as we know it. He's dead jim, but not as we know it. not as we know it, cap'n.(cue refrain) [ Reply to This Plus ca change (Score:3, Insightful) by FishandChips (695645) on Friday November 04, @07:21AM (#13949032) These days they mess up old bones in old cathedrals in order to put somewhere on the map and provide an attraction for thousands of credulous visitors from all over the world.In the Middle Ages they messed up old bones in old cathedrals in order to put somewhere on the map and provide an attraction for thousands of credulous vistors from all over the world.Let the old guy rest in peace. Why should he want a thousand cheap busts and other trinkets knocked out in his name in the local tourist shops? Modern scientists: the religious relic traders of yesterday had nothing on them. [ Reply to This State of the tombs (Score:4, Funny)