An anonymous reader writes "According to ZDNET Microsoft is going to be keynoting the Australian Unix and Open Systems Useres Group conference. From the article: "'Don't be put off by Chris' Microsoft badge -- he is actually a long time Unix hacker,' the user group said today in a statement updating users on presentations at the conference ... Green, Microsoft's local Unix Interoperability and High Performance Computing specialist, will update the conference on his company's 'Unix and open source-related activities, including their efforts to provide a POSIX environment in Windows, and to integrate Windows and Unix systems.'" Microsoft Rep To Keynote Unix Conference Log in/Create an Account | Top | 133 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 133 comments 0: 126 comments 1: 87 comments 2: 53 comments 3: 23 comments 4: 13 comments 5: 10 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Stigma (Score:3, Insightful) by Namronorman (901664) on Thursday October 13, @08:34PM (#13786996) (Last Journal: Wednesday October 05, @10:49PM) Maybe this will help relieve the stigma people have about a lot of MS employees that are well known. Not every person there is a microsoft recording. [ Reply to ThisRe:Stigma by rtb61 (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:07PMRe:Stigma by Foofoobar (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:21PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Stigma by _Sprocket_ (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @11:48PMOnly if ... by KwKSilver (Score:1) Friday October 14, @12:40AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. I call bull hockey! (Score:5, Informative) by yagu (721525) * <yayagu@gmail.com> on Thursday October 13, @08:36PM (#13787008) (Last Journal: Sunday October 09, @10:33PM) From the slashdot article: will update the conference on his company's 'Unix and opensource-related activities, including their efforts to provide a POSIXenvironment in Windows, and to integrate Windows and Unix systems.' I call bullhockey on this. A lot of slashdotters probably aren't even old enough toremember when Microsoft first came out with NT. Their PR releases were all abuzzwith their new advanced technology OS with special emphasis on their intentto have a POSIX compliant OS. At the same time they talked meinto working for them (took three offers, a signing bonus, and a pretty nicestock option offer), under the ostensible work they'd have for me to providesupport for their POSIX subsystem.Once I was in the door, and within the first week I attended what was describedas a "presentation on NT's POSIX subsystem", presented by the POSIXteam. That team turned out to be a guy named Matt (don't know his last name).The project manager Margaret (don't remember HER last name) got up before thepresentation and said (and I can only paraphrase, I don't remember verbatim, butguarantee the accuracy of the spirit of her comments): "Beforewe proceed with this presentation, there's one thing I (Microsoft) want to makeclear. The POSIX subsystem is a check box. We're only doing it to fulfill therequirement to have POSIX so we can get government contracts."I was almost physically ill, what was to be MY role (my background was Unix) iftheir POSIX was to be a sham? (BTW, not only did they not intend to support it, theyonly implemented the API portion of POSIX, not the user environment and utilities.)I called Larry Kroger who was in charge of things and desparately asked himwhat I was supposed to tell people who were asking POSIX support questions. Hetold me, "tell them we don't support it.". What if they ask about futureplans for POSIX? He replied, "tell them we have no plans.".Forgive me if have doubts about Microsoft's purity in "plans" today todo POSIX.Oh, and for the record, anyone who doubts my accounts... the entire presentationwas videotaped (1992), as were all of their internal presentations. I only assume itwould still be available today but if it is, it will reflect my accounting of events. [ Reply to ThisRe:I call bull hockey! by SuperDuG (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @08:57PMRe:I call bull hockey! by silsor (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:12PMREAD THIS BEFORE MODERATING PARENT!!! by GameMaster (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:28PMRe:READ THIS BEFORE MODERATING PARENT!!! by SuperDuG (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:36PMRe:READ THIS BEFORE MODERATING PARENT!!! by GameMaster (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @10:00PMRe:READ THIS BEFORE MODERATING PARENT!!! by Coniptor (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @10:13PMRe:READ THIS BEFORE MODERATING PARENT!!! by GameMaster (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @10:30PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.1 reply beneath your current threshold.Obligatory reply by Raul654 (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:22PM Re:I call bull hockey! (Score:4, Informative) by hkb (777908) on Thursday October 13, @09:28PM (#13787303) Welcome to 1995. I guess you didn't hear that Microsoft bought OpenNT (later known as Interix) back in the mid-1990s and created a product called "Services For UNIX" out of it, and that this component is free, mature and gives you virtually a full UNIX-like environment. So, it's not "in the works", it's already out there. However, it will soon be included in Windows by default, which is what these marketdroids are essentially saying.That Microsoft created the original POSIX subsystem for government compliance is NO secret at all, as it's been openly "admitted" at several official MS events throughout history. It was basically a stupid little feature thrown in to meet a stupid little government requirement thrown in by some UNIX zealots to try and keep UNIX around. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:I call bull hockey! by Halfbaked Plan (Score:3) Thursday October 13, @09:50PMRe:I call bull hockey! by Anonymous Coward (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:59PMTroll here often? by roystgnr (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:50PMRe:I call bull hockey! by PhotoGuy (Score:2) Friday October 14, @12:03AM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:I call bull hockey! by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:38PMRe:I call bull hockey! by slashdotnickname (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:12PMRe:I call bull hockey! by bani (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:44PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.4 replies beneath your current threshold. Predictions (Score:2, Funny) by Average_Joe_Sixpack (534373) on Thursday October 13, @08:36PM (#13787011) MS resurrects XENIX [ Reply to ThisRe:Predictions by Tackhead (Score:3) Thursday October 13, @08:39PMRe:Predictions by thedcm (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:35PM It's either I'm sooo confused... (Score:1) by TarrySingh (916400) on Thursday October 13, @08:36PM (#13787012) (http://tarrysingh.blogspot.com/) or just some folks are sooo left out! [ Reply to This So it's come down to Unix against Linux now? (Score:1, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 13, @08:37PM (#13787022) Personally I think memory allocation and time-sharing of CPUs is getting a bit mature; and it's the development philosophies of GNU/* software thats fundementally different. I'm not at all surprised that Unix & Microsoft are aligned. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Microsoft to lecture us on unix? (Score:5, Funny) by pmike_bauer (763028) on Thursday October 13, @08:45PM (#13787073) Isn't that sort of like asking Ms. Hilton to address MENSA? [ Reply to ThisMs. Hilton by game kid (Score:3) Thursday October 13, @08:59PMRe:Microsoft to lecture us on unix? by pmike_bauer (Score:3) Thursday October 13, @09:03PM2 replies beneath your current threshold. Obviously (Score:5, Funny) by ryanw (131814) on Thursday October 13, @08:47PM (#13787083) Can't beat em, join em, then beat em. [ Reply to ThisRe:Obviously by Chulo (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:40PMRe:Obviously by thedcm (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:47PM First suggestion for Windows interoperability (Score:5, Interesting) by Spy der Mann (805235) <spydermann.slash ... m minus language> on Thursday October 13, @08:56PM (#13787138) (Last Journal: Wednesday October 12, @02:42PM) Support reiserFS and ext2 / ext3 file systems in windows!Thank you. [ Reply to ThisMOD PARENT UP by blackcoot (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:25PMRe:MOD PARENT UP by cortana (Score:3) Thursday October 13, @09:36PMRe:MOD PARENT UP by Halfbaked Plan (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:54PMRe:MOD PARENT UP by Spy der Mann (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:08PMHere you go (sort of) by ag-gvts-inc (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:44PMRe:Here you go (sort of) by mixmasterjake (Score:2) Friday October 14, @12:25AMRe:First suggestion for Windows interoperability by sctprog (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:17PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.1 reply beneath your current threshold. doesn't matter what he DID before, he works for MS (Score:4, Insightful) by Locutus (9039) on Thursday October 13, @08:59PM (#13787151) Since he now works for MSFT and they have NO HISTORY of working productively with competitors, he and his company will only do harm. Why on earth would anybody let an MSFT badge keynote a *nix conference is beyond me... It's bull that they say it'll be about interoperability and most likely all you'll get is how you can ftp into their system if you use their ftp client, written in MS.net, and run on Mono. And if your dumb enough to think that you'll have any future supporting a *nix interface from MSFT, good luck with that. Remember Bristol and Wind/U?I sure hope he gets heckled out the door, cause MSFT hasn't done anything to earn more respect than that. IMO.LoB [ Reply to This Re:doesn't matter what he DID before, he works for (Score:5, Funny) by ebuck (585470) on Thursday October 13, @09:14PM (#13787234) Quotes the parent poster, "Why on earth would anybody let an MSFT badge keynote a *nix conference is beyond me..."I imagine it's the Krusty the Klown defense on why one must sell out:Sobs for a few breaths then exclaims in anguish, "They parked a dumptruck full of cash on my front yard! What else could I do!?!?!?" More emphatic sobbing. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:doesn't matter what he DID before, he works for by thedcm (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:47PMRe:doesn't matter what he DID before, he works for by pulse2600 (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @09:56PMRe:doesn't matter what he DID before, he works for by Tuross (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @10:48PM In othe news, (Score:5, Funny) by Hershmire (41460) on Thursday October 13, @09:02PM (#13787164) (http://www.blindskier.com/) we were never at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia. [ Reply to ThisRe:In othe news, by radarsat1 (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @09:38PMRe:In othe news, by thedcm (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:47PM Mini-Question about VMWare and Windows (Score:1) by rheotaxis (528103) on Thursday October 13, @09:02PM (#13787170) (http://antimsft.blogspot.com/) We only want Windows Servers running inside virtural machines running on a Linux OS that owns the real hardware. Products like VMWare. We can host complete Internet web apps for clients that insist that their web site has to run on Windows. Is this viable? [ Reply to ThisRe:Mini-Question about VMWare and Windows by Shawn is an Asshole (Score:1) Friday October 14, @12:50AM Sounds familiar (Score:5, Funny) by Sponge Bath (413667) on Thursday October 13, @09:03PM (#13787182) Don't be put off by Darths' black helmet -- he is actually a long time Jedi night [ Reply to ThisRe:Sounds familiar by thedcm (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:47PM Strange Days (Score:3, Informative) by FishandChips (695645) on Thursday October 13, @09:05PM (#13787190) Looking forward to the next Washington State Unix and Open Systems Users Group which will be keynoted by Dame Edna Everidge (mistakenly hired by Microsoft as an f/oss advocate after Eric S. Raymond turned down the job offer).Hey, maybe they do things differently down under. Take folks as you find them. Whoever this guy is, he could well have some very interesting and useful things to say. Claiming that the guy couldn't have anything worthwhile to say because he works for Microsoft is pretty dumb as well as rude to the local Australian group. [ Reply to This Re:Strange Days (Score:5, Insightful) by iggymanz (596061) on Thursday October 13, @09:19PM (#13787260) Some of us have been listening to Microsoft say dumb and rude things about Unix and Linux for over 7 years; after a bellyfull of their slander and FUD and lies and "unbiased studies" conducted by paid stool pigeons, all the while causing businesses to lose billions due to poor security and blue screens of death, we're supposed to treat their new mouthpiece with dignity and respect? [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Strange Days by hayden (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:48PMRe:Strange Days / Slashdot ways by Viper233 (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:39PM Great opportunity! (Score:3, Funny) by Locke2005 (849178) on Thursday October 13, @09:13PM (#13787228) (http://whitehouse.com/) All I need to do is secure the rotten tomato concession outside that conference, and I'll be rich beyond my wildest dreams! Oh wait... it's in Australia... never mind. [ Reply to ThisRe:Great opportunity! by UserGoogol (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @11:12PMRe:Great opportunity! by McGiraf (Score:1) Friday October 14, @12:10AM POSIX? (Score:2, Interesting) by shareme (897587) on Thursday October 13, @09:14PM (#13787232) (http://www.jroller.com/page/shareme/Weblog) Would that be the same POSIX that they thought TSCO Group had IP lciense to when in fact Novel was the actual IP owener?I think MS should get their IP story straight before showing up at Unix conferences.. [ Reply to ThisRe:POSIX? by VGPowerlord (Score:2) Thursday October 13, @10:58PM MS rep gave a presentation at our LUG meeting (Score:1) by ylikone (589264) on Thursday October 13, @09:22PM (#13787279) And basically it was the same old MS shiat we've come to expect. MS wants to work with the OS community... yeah right, by showing how easy it is to tie all your systems together with a windows server box... so you can eventually phase out those nasty open source boxes. There are NO good MS employees, they have all been brainwashed and are really only interested in the money. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. Pfft (Score:2, Interesting) by vcv (526771) on Thursday October 13, @09:29PM (#13787310) Yeah, Like Microsoft would ever offer anything POSIX compliant (coughSFUcough), like Linux does across the whole system (coughpthreadscough). [ Reply to This Hell (Score:2, Funny) by CDPatten (907182) on Thursday October 13, @09:39PM (#13787359) has frozen over.In other news; next week Steve Jobs will be announcing an XPod video player for the Xbox 360. [ Reply to This And his script reads: (Score:1, Funny) by Lister (9733) on Thursday October 13, @09:41PM (#13787368) Developers, developers, developers, developers..... [ Reply to This Long-time Unix Hacker... (Score:4, Interesting) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 13, @09:47PM (#13787391) It's funny they say that because I went to Microsoft career talks at my university (York University in Toronto) and every time a (different guy) came in and the first thing they said was:  "... I was unix hacker for a long time before I decided Microsoft's the way to go ..." [ Reply to ThisRe:Long-time Unix Hacker... by Profane Motherfucker (Score:1) Thursday October 13, @11:45PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.1 reply beneath your current threshold. BS ... and freedom matters (Score:5, Insightful) by argoff (142580) on Thursday October 13, @09:54PM (#13787422) The first way to tell that this is BS is to see if Microsoft is willing to guarantee Linux won't be sued for software patent infringement like IBM did. The fact is they won't and they don't want to. The deal here is that Microsoft has figured out that they can't beat Linux head on in the marketplace, so now they are trying to co-opt it. Watch out for the bullshit monster chasing after you and trying to give you a big fat kiss! I'm sure this is just the beginning.Do not fall for it at all. Free software is inherently better than proprietary software because it is first of all free, and then and only then is it often better for technical or usage reasons. In free markets, freedom maters. None of the fundamentals have changed, you are what you hold yourself accountable to. [ Reply to This2 replies beneath your current threshold. They just reset (Score:2) by mattr (78516) <mattr@@@telebody...com> on Thursday October 13, @10:15PM (#13787522) (http://telebody.com | Last Journal: Tuesday July 30, @08:28AM) That's okay, sounds like the borg decided to do a soft reset and now it's back in the Embrace stage. Scary thing I suppose is.. it seems to be learning. [ Reply to This Good sign, don't hold your breath. (Score:2, Insightful) by Anonymous Coward on Thursday October 13, @10:21PM (#13787544) The best thing microsoft could do for itself is to support unix, keeping in mind the market for their other products.Windows isn't everything, if they're able to get in with the open source crowd they could design components, get everyone hooked and essentially take over the platform. This would take more than a fiscal quarter, which is probably the only reason they haven't already.Well, thats what I would do if I were the CEO. [ Reply to This Bullshit... (Score:2, Flamebait) by Eric_Cartman_South_P (594330) on Thursday October 13, @10:40PM (#13787629) I unserstand in the real world we are supposed to act all civilized and polite, but I say FUCK THEM, it's too late for MS to play nice. Welcome to the future, enjoy Linux and OSS, and FUCK YOU.Now excuse me as I go back to finish working, I was using OpenOffice.org (latest beta of v2) and it's wonderfull and I'm carefull to make sure I submit any bugs I find. That's my part. [ Reply to This Microsoft Spinning Unix Via Slashdot (Score:1) by RentonSentinel (906700) on Thursday October 13, @10:48PM (#13787663) (Last Journal: Tuesday August 16, @06:10PM) Microsoft Spinning Unix Via SlashdotProof that slashdot is shilling for the military-industrial complex! [ Reply to This Embrace, Extend, Extinguish (Score:2) by fatboy (6851) on Thursday October 13, @10:57PM (#13787709) (http://www.wlandb.com/) EOM [ Reply to This Trade with them. (Score:2) by houghi (78078) on Thursday October 13, @11:12PM (#13787788) (http://www.houghi.org/) their efforts to provide a POSIX environmentWe could make it easy for them. They tell us the underlying secrets of NTFS and we tell them the secrets of the POSIX environment.Sounds like a fair tradeoff and everybody wins. Please till that time, nobody tell the POSIX secrets, as it would undermine our negotiations. [ Reply to This Huh? (Score:1) by Mike Savior (802573) <mercury4063@gmai[ ]om ['l.c' in gap]> on Thursday October 13, @11:42PM (#13787938)