Duke Weber writes "Microsoft sometimes gets it right after three tries. Not so with Windows Media Center 2005. You do get a dancing Scooby Doo. You don't get much Media." From the article: "As a DVR, one tuner was just OK, with a second tuner working, it was still OK, provided you weren't too picky about mouths moving at the same time words came out. Out with the snazzy Realtek integrated sound on the ASUS-A8V motherboard. In with an Audigy 2ZS to lessen the load on the AMD 64 3000+ processor. More gadgets. That cured the synch. The picture still was no where close to a vintage Tivo. But it does keep track of the programs, important with a terabyte of disc."Ads_xl=0;Ads_yl=0;Ads_xp='';Ads_yp='';Ads_xp1='';Ads_yp1='';Ads_par='';Ads_cnturl='';Ads_prf='page=article';Ads_channels='RON_P6_IMU';Ads_wrd='windows,movies,tv';Ads_kid=0;Ads_bid=0;Ads_sec=0; Roadkill on the Convergence Highway Log in/Create an Account | Top | 156 comments | Search Discussion Display Options Threshold: -1: 156 comments 0: 151 comments 1: 129 comments 2: 91 comments 3: 30 comments 4: 18 comments 5: 10 comments Flat Nested No Comments Threaded Oldest First Newest First Highest Scores First Oldest First (Ignore Threads) Newest First (Ignore Threads) The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way. Issues (Score:5, Insightful) by daveschroeder (516195) * <das@@@doit...wisc...edu> on Tuesday October 25, @06:06PM (#13876060) (http://das.doit.wisc.edu/) The biggest issue with media centers is a very practical one: tuning. How do you tune channels from cable or satellite providers when a set top box provided by cable or satellite provider is essentially required? The "IR blaster" solution is inelegant at best, and gets even more inelegant if you want more than one tuner. That was Microsoft's biggest miscalculation in the media center strategy.Conversely, the cable and satellite providers themselves will be able to provide one device that can record all of your digital content, AND acts as your set top box, AND has multiple tuners AND handles SD, HD, digital, and analog, AND doesn't require a large initial expenditure: most providers will give you all of this for under $10/month, in a turnkey solution that "just works". Granted, it's not as flexible and capable as your own box, but most will accept this tradeoff. Most won't even know there *was* a tradeoff.But what of all your other media? Your music, your movies, your videos? Indeed, Apple's media center strategy is a novel one: it includes all traditional media center functions except perhaps the primary one: television recording. Instead, it's taken the bold next step: bypass the tuning issue and the recording issue entirely by bypassing the cable and satellite operators entirely, and delivering the content directly to you. The cable operators will still provide a service: it will just be bandwidth, and not content. [ Reply to ThisRe:Issues by CuteVlogger (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:21PMRe:Issues by pintomp3 (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:21PMRe:Issues by raventh1 (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @10:49PMRe:Issues by kebes (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:24PMIf you have digital cable by tepples (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:50PMRe:If you have digital cable by captain_craptacular (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:00PMRe:Issues by whoever57 (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:32PMRe:Issues by poot_rootbeer (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:43PMRe:Issues by krakelohm (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @08:21PMRe:Issues by qodfathr (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @10:49PMCableCard by wiredlogic (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:44PMRe:Issues by SeattleGameboy (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:47PM Get some vision going there (Score:4, Interesting) by SuperKendall (25149) * on Tuesday October 25, @07:01PM (#13876502) What? I can only watch 4 lousy ABC shows? What? Only 320 by 200 resolution???You fail to think of the future, when there could be a lot more TV shows there. Possibly even in better resolution though the current one is more than good enough to convey the subtle nuances TV has to offer (I can tell you've not tried watching any of them). It's definatley a far cry better than VCR or over the air quality.The basic principle is sound. Why bother with all the UI and technical architecture issues you have with recording when the whole point of a PVR is to get a file into a random access digital file anyway? Aren't you simply better off starting with a whole digital file and working from there? Why does there need to ever be a time component involved other than when content is initially put up for aquisition?TV viewers are like someone waiting at an airport luggage carosel, waiting until just the right interval of time arrives to get what they want. Why should TV viewing be that unpleasant now when there is no need. Why doesn't your video luggage just arrive and wait right in front of you for you to get it, now that it can.I can also watch HD football on the Mac BTW - either with an HD tuner or downloading a torrent of same. In the future I should just be able to come home any time and start a football stream from scratch if I like. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Get some vision going there by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:08PMRe:Get some vision going there by Anonymous Coward (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:38PMRe:Get some vision going there by LocalH (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @09:35PMRe:Get some vision going there by kabz (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @11:07PM20 years? by SuperKendall (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:49PMRe:20 years? by tepples (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:54PMRe:20 years? by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:00PMRe:20 years? by arminw (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:29PMRe:Issues by Ucklak (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:08PMRe:Issues by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:10PMRe:Issues by rafimg (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @10:13PMquadrature amplitude modulation by adsl (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:49PMActually... by daveschroeder (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @07:22PMRe:Actually... by adsl (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:32PMTying of cable Internet to cable TV by tepples (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:58PMRe:Issues by Sloppy (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @11:39PM3 replies beneath your current threshold. Easier than Myth (Score:3, Insightful) by fishybell (516991) <fishybellNO@SPAMhotmail.com> on Tuesday October 25, @06:07PM (#13876068) (http://www.fishybell.com/ | Last Journal: Friday March 21, @02:51PM) ...as long as it's easier than MythTV to set up and cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 years, I'll do it. [ Reply to This Re:Easier than Myth (Score:5, Insightful) by ivan256 (17499) * <baboval+slashdot ... g minus physicis> on Tuesday October 25, @06:22PM (#13876195) (http://www.acm.wpi.edu/~jbaboval/index.html) cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 yearsHmm...DirecTV with Tivo: $0 + $4/month = $480 over 10 years.Standalone Tivo: $50 + $299 = $349 over 10 years.Complete Windows Media Center PC: $800+ and probably won't be supported for 10 years and will require upgradesBuild your own Media Center PC: $150 (software) + $300+ (minimum, for PC with sufficient specs) + $30 (remote) + $50 (cables) + $??? (who knows what else) = $lots. (And it still won't be supported in 10 years)Good luck with that cheaper part. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Easier than Myth by fishybell (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @07:04PMRe:Easier than Myth by ivan256 (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:14PMRe:Easier than Myth by Jambon (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @09:39PM Re:Easier than Myth (Score:5, Insightful) by merreborn (853723) on Tuesday October 25, @06:29PM (#13876243) ...as long as it's easier than MythTV to set up and cheaper than Tivo over 5-10 years, I'll do it. Decent Tivo box: $200Lifetime Subscription: $300 If you can get a windows media center box for $500, lifetime service included, then by all means... Even with a 5 year lifetime, Tivo ends up costing you under $10/month. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Easier than Myth by Richard_at_work (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @06:48PMRe:Easier than Myth by Schaffner (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:28PMRe:Easier than Myth by Darth (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:28PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:Easier than Myth by cesman (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:03PMRe:Easier than Myth by pintpusher (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:40PM myth tv? (Score:1) by Chickenofbristol55 (884806) on Tuesday October 25, @06:10PM (#13876088) Try myth tv maybe?http://mythtv.org/ [mythtv.org]Nice free alternitive for the people that hate windows media center (...ahem...) [ Reply to ThisRe:myth tv? by dragon_imp (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:57PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. To carry an analogy... (Score:4, Insightful) by tktk (540564) on Tuesday October 25, @06:10PM (#13876089) the only roadkill I see on the convergence highway will be the consumers. [ Reply to ThisA La Carte? by ackthpt (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:24PMRe:A La Carte? by isbhod (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:00PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Replay TV (Score:1, Interesting) by MageWyn (6983) on Tuesday October 25, @06:13PM (#13876110) (Last Journal: Tuesday November 02, @07:14PM) Replay TV for me, all the way...I like auto-skipping commercials, which is something I haven't seen in other DVRs. [ Reply to This This line says it all... (Score:4, Funny) by Boap (559344) on Tuesday October 25, @06:14PM (#13876119) That is the final curse of Media Center. Even if it worked, it would still be Windows . [ Reply to This Hardware & driver problems (Score:5, Insightful) by SoCalChris (573049) on Tuesday October 25, @06:14PM (#13876124) (http://www.lbcpc.com/ | Last Journal: Monday February 21, @12:54PM) I've never used Windows Media Center, but almost all of the problems he's complaining about sound like hardware problems, driver issues, or he chose the wrong hardware to begin with.I have a feeling that if he had chosen his equipment better, or done a little more research before buying everything, he wouldn't have had the problems.Besides, he's complaining about things like a broken S Video connector in his review, that is hardly Microsoft's fault. [ Reply to ThisRe:Hardware & driver problems by olddotter (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:36PMRe:Hardware & driver problems by Ploum (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:48PMRe:Hardware & driver problems by MBCook (Score:3) Tuesday October 25, @08:45PMRe:Hardware & driver problems by 10101001 10101001 (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @11:30PMRe:Hardware & driver problems by karnal (Score:2) Wednesday October 26, @12:28AM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Ummmm (Score:5, Insightful) by That's Unpossible! (722232) on Tuesday October 25, @06:14PM (#13876127) (http://www.fairtax.org/ | Last Journal: Monday September 12, @08:14PM) Primal cravings make people do strange and stupid things. They made me build a Windows Media Center PC. ... snip ...The first secret is that you need to scam your way into getting a copy of Windows XP Media Edition 2005, which is only sold to OEMs.I bet if this guy tried to build a real TiVo, it might suck as well.Perhaps windows media center is sold to OEMs only because they are the ones that know how the machines have to be built to work properly?Reviews like this are why Apple will never license MacOS X for PCs. [ Reply to This My own experience (Score:5, Informative) by PCM2 (4486) on Tuesday October 25, @06:39PM (#13876325) (http://www.fatalexception.org/) Perhaps windows media center is sold to OEMs only because they are the ones that know how the machines have to be built to work properly? Exactly.After long years of being a Mac-only guy, I broke down and bought an Intel box this year. And guess what? It was a Media Center 2005 PC. And you know what else? It was painless to set up and it works exactly as advertised. This guy seems to be complaining about things like broken S-Video cables ... I can hardly see how that should be Microsoft's fault.On the other hand, he does bring up some important points. With Media Center and the hardware that came in my box, picture quality is not all that great. (I hear the Hauppauge cards offer the best quality; I might try one of those out.) You also can't time-shift FM radio. But then, like many TV tuner cards, mine didn't come with FM radio support, so it's a non-issue anyway.Also, for a "convergence" device, recording from a video source is exactly as painful as he describes. I could find NO software on my system that would let me record from VHS tape, except for one program that required me to insert DVD media. Unlike his case, it worked for me. But the point remains that this is totally stupid. What if I don't want to burn it to a DVD? What if I'd like to, um, you know ... check to see that I was getting a signal from my VCR first? Sorry, no way to do that. Your best option is to set it for a five-minute trial run and check to see if it worked after the program burns the results to a DVD.Another semi-retarded thing about Windows Media Center is that it records TV in a proprietary Microsoft format, DVR-MS. I am told that this is MPEG internally, but you need to export it with a different piece of software (NeroVision Express works) if you want to get a usable file that you could convert to XviD, for example.What's more, every video format you play in Windows Media Center is handled with a DirectShow filter. That's good, in the sense that when you install new codecs in XP they are automatically picked up by Media Center, so you can play your DivX, XviD, etc. There is one caveat, however, and that is that you can't stream these formats to another system via a Media Center Connector or whatever you call it, like your Xbox 360. I think only Windows Media and MPEG formats are supported. And another glitch with the DirectShow involves timing, which inevitably means you get these stutters in your video every few minutes when you're watching them on a TV. The guy who invented ReClock [divx-digest.com] explains it all in great length. The downside is that ReClock doesn't seem to work so well with Media Center yet.So, yeah, this "review" is dumb, and you shouldn't expect to be able to bash together a Media Center PC in a weekend and expect it to work. In fact, you may just want to spend $1,400 and buy one, like I did. But even if it works, Media Center is pretty far of from being a "TiVo killer" just yet. If all you want is a DVR, you should buy one of those. I bought the Media Center PC primarily because I wanted an x86 PC, and in that dual capacity it works fine for me. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:My own experience by pinkocommie (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:48PMRe:My own experience by PCM2 (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:57PMRe:My own experience by gsfprez (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:11PMRe:My own experience by arminw (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @09:03PMRe:My own experience by iso (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:58PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Making the world a system admin.. (Score:4, Insightful) by MosesJones (55544) on Tuesday October 25, @06:15PM (#13876136) (http://service-architecture.blogspot.com/) For me the big issue here is that the aim of a central server that controls all of your media means that people will have to all become system adminstrators. This is hardly likely, the idea of my Wife worrying about menus to record programmes off the TV is not the sort of thing I look forwards to. Something like a TiVo is perfect as its a TV device that intends to record programmes and nothing else. My wife's iPod is perfect to listen to music on even if there is the irritant of having to connect it to the PC (and this is an irritant for her) and finally actually having paper photos to hand around is what her and her friends like doing. We could have a digital home with me as the sys admin... but my wife would hate it.The alternative of lots of seperate devices that do their jobs pretty well and have to communicate together clearly requires too much collaboration and innovation for those companies pushing the "Digital Home" vision around a central server.Media Centre is a great example of a company trying to force an idea it think SHOULD make it billions down the throats of people who don't want it. Give us loosely coupled devices that work together seemlessly not videos that chase us around the house or a central server that needs constant administration and updating. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. WTF (Score:2) by SQLz (564901) on Tuesday October 25, @06:16PM (#13876138) (http://www.linuxplatform.org/ | Last Journal: Tuesday December 16, @05:31PM) The media-center can't play back real time video w/ audio with a Athon64 3000+ with a top of the line mobo? Wow, Tivo could only dream of those specs. [ Reply to ThisRe:WTF by MaskedSlacker (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:20PMRe:WTF -- .sig by Nom du Keyboard (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:24PMRe:WTF by Armando_Mcgillicutty (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:45PMRe:WTF by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:59PMRe:WTF by badasscat (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:35PMRe:WTF by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:39PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:WTF by wolrahnaes (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:44PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. I wasn't even able to add a second drive (Score:4, Insightful) by Safe Sex Goddess (910415) on Tuesday October 25, @06:19PM (#13876162) (http://www.safesexzone.com/ | Last Journal: Thursday September 22, @01:14PM) I tried to install a second drive on my Windows Media PC, but it wouldn't work.Eventually I broke a nail and had to abandon the project before any more damage was sustained. [ Reply to ThisRe:I wasn't even able to add a second drive by HermanAB (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:29PMRe:I wasn't even able to add a second drive by Armando_Mcgillicutty (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @06:49PMRe:I wasn't even able to add a second drive by HermanAB (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:07PMRe:I wasn't even able to add a second drive by Utopia (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:24PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. There is a reason that MCE is only sold to OEMs... (Score:5, Insightful) by shimmerkid (661737) on Tuesday October 25, @06:20PM (#13876164) (http://davidisbister.blogspot.com/) and this article illustrates why. Hacking together a MCE box from parts is a masochistic enterprise. MS only sells MCE to OEMs who are willing to QA their setup (acronym overload!). This writer just got a taste of what QA at Dell and HP must feel like. [ Reply to This 2X (Score:5, Funny) by Nom du Keyboard (633989) on Tuesday October 25, @06:20PM (#13876168) As a DVR, one tuner was just OK, with a second tuner working, it was still OK, provided you weren't too picky about mouths moving at the same time words came out. You clearly need a dual processor. One processor for each tuner. Throw enough horsepower against Microsoft and even MSWord has a decent framerate. [ Reply to ThisRe:2X by WhiteWolf666 (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:37PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Watching with interest (Score:2) by LaughingCoder (914424) on Tuesday October 25, @06:24PM (#13876212) I have been keeping track of WMC as it has evolved. I am a longtime TIVO owner (fantastic usability, excellent reliability) and last year I also built my own homebrew PVR to try and get out from under the TIVO monthly fee. So far the homebrew is working out very well -- I used Snapstream Beyond TV software, a Hippauge tuner card in an ASUS motherboard with an Athlon 2400XP CPU, 512MB of memory and a 200GB IDE drive (no RAID). Snapstream provides program data over the internet, bundled with the purchase of the software. I used an ATI remote that came with an older All-In-Wonder board that I no longer use. Bottom line, it works really well. Usability is excellent (almost as good as TIVO) and picture quality (and sound sync) also are as good as TIVO (actually I can dial up better picture quality if I want to trade off space). Anyhow, I have been waiting to see when Microsoft eclipses both TIVO and Snapstream. It seems inevitable, but from what I read they aren't there yet. [ Reply to This1 reply beneath your current threshold. What a moron (Score:5, Insightful) by FullCircle (643323) on Tuesday October 25, @06:28PM (#13876233) He lost my interest when I found the pic of the destroyed s-video cable.I've been in video since the 80's and I've seen that ONCE.You have to be a complete idiot to break an s-video cable off like that, so I can't take anything else in the article seriously. I guess he breaks keyboard and mouse connectors off too? [ Reply to ThisRe:What a moron by aafiske (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @07:51PMRe:What a moron by FullCircle (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @11:30PM Thats Mediocresoft! (Score:3, Insightful) by sdstudguy (413914) on Tuesday October 25, @06:33PM (#13876284) I just wish Apple would produce a media center, because you know it would be refined and more then halfway decent. Doing what it does, and doing it well. Where as Bill Gates is notorious for making a wide range of products that just work poorly. Microsoft, the product name synonymous with mediocre. Want a phone OS, Desktop OS, or Media Center right now!? Then they'll have your $$$, because MediocreSoft (aka Microsoft) is there, doing what they do not well, but darn right OK enough to get your cash and nothing more. [ Reply to This Re:Thats Mediocresoft! (Score:4, Insightful) by poot_rootbeer (188613) on Tuesday October 25, @07:00PM (#13876488) I just wish Apple would produce a media centerI guess you missed the last round of product announcements from Apple?The new iMac G5's ship with a bundled remote control, and a media shell called "Front Row" that bears more than a passing resemblance to the interfaces of Tivo, XP Media Center, and the like.All that's missing from the equation is TV tuner support. There's one or two OEMs that sell external tuners for the Mac, but they key moment will come when Apple throws their support behind an internal, integrated solution. And to those who think that won't happen soon: were you also confident that Macs would never migrate to x86, and that iPods would never get video support?The contrast between Microsoft and Apple's product strategies is noticeable. Microsoft rushed to market with a decent but inelegant system, and refines it little by little each year. Apple has taken its time getting their initial product out there, but the extra care they take is readily noticeable in the useability. [ Reply to This | ParentRe:Thats Mediocresoft! by Moofie (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:41PMRe:Thats Mediocresoft! by kb7oeb (Score:1) Wednesday October 26, @12:20AMRe:Thats Mediocresoft! by Moofie (Score:1) Wednesday October 26, @12:39AMBut... by Scott Byer (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @10:22PMRe:Thats Mediocresoft! by RzUpAnmsCwrds (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @11:26PMRe:Thats Mediocresoft! by necro81 (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @11:17PM Is it backwards? (Score:4, Insightful) by tktk (540564) on Tuesday October 25, @06:36PM (#13876308) When I first heard about convergence, I imagined a situation where products met at the same place, like a fileserver. Picture a group random set of arrows all moving to the same spot. But it seems that companies are doing it backwards, where they they want to be in a single spot and they're sending arrows out everywhere. This doesn't seem like convergence to me...more like...diffusion. [ Reply to This If you don't know, don't build (Score:5, Interesting) by SeattleGameboy (641456) on Tuesday October 25, @06:42PM (#13876341) (Last Journal: Wednesday April 30, @01:51PM) This guy's problem is not Windows Media Center, it is because he built the machine himself.If he did any research, he would have learned that hardware compatibility is key to having a smooth running MCE. Using built in sound chip? PUHLEEZE! Unless you have Intel chipset, you are going to have some major problems (VIA boards SUCK!!!) You could have gotten a $20 Chaintech AV-710 and he would never have had to deal with his sound problems.And poor picture? I am guessing he purchased some cheap 1st generation tuners. If you would have gotten ATI 550 based tuners, the picture quality would surpass that of any Tivo. And did you even try HDTV??? IT ROCKS!!!It is VERY important that you test out hardware compatibility before building an MCE yourself (unless you want to do a LOT of experimentation). Which is WHY MS DOES NOT SELL MCE by itself!!!If you have the right hardware setup, MCE is a pleasure. I have over 500GB recorded TV and another 100GB of music and picture. I also have about 50 DVD's ripped on the hard drive that I can watch without ever getting up from the couch.There is no other device (including APPLE) that will allow you to do that as easily as MCE. [ Reply to ThisRe:If you don't know, don't build by krakelohm (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @08:36PMRe:If you don't know, don't build by qodfathr (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @11:04PM1 reply beneath your current threshold.Re:If you don't know, don't build by cojsl (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @10:43PM Your Turn (Score:2, Funny) by Doc Ruby (173196) on Tuesday October 25, @06:44PM (#13876358) (http://slashdot.org/~Doc%20Ruby/journal | Last Journal: Thursday March 31, @02:48PM) Let's hear it from the Microsoft fans: "he's just bashing Microsoft!" [ Reply to This Right tool, right job (Score:2, Insightful) by ricoder (414205) on Tuesday October 25, @06:45PM (#13876364) (http://www.ricoder.com/) I'll try to put asside the apparent anti-M$ bias in the article and read it for what it is; a complaint based on poor hardware choices and a lack of understanding for what a media center should be.Its pretty universal amongst geeks that computers belong in the living room controlling everything from lights to music to tv to door alarms...or maybe that's just me. No one, and I do mean no one, has managed to put it all together in one EASY TO USE AND REASONABLY PRICED package. You've gotta go in knowing that's the case, and you've gotta go in with a clear sense of what you want to accomplish in your price point.I've been running MCE 2005 for about 6 months now and its doing everything I want it to do with only one major issue, HD, and that's not Microsoft's fault...its a mix of congress and cable companies. With a moderately priced 3ghz box and 1gb of ram, and a paultry 120gb of storage, I can record/watch tv, burn shows to DVD, play my music, do a funky slide-show of my pictures...and then do all of those things upstairs in a room with only a tv and an MCE extender. Add to that a wireless keyboard/mouse, and I'm editing pictures and video on my 50" HDTV. All of that is accessible by the average joe non-geek, and I think that is the whole point.Throw in some geeky tweaks and hacks, and we're talking about streaming HD content to the box with firewire (stupid content flags), ripping and streaming DVDs and playing Age of Empires III the way it was intended...50" of pure glory.Back to the gripes of the article, I'm having a hard time feeling sympathy. Leave the AMD thing out of it, I'm sure they make a fine product.-However, think AUDIO IN A MEDIA PC. What did you come up with, 16 bit Sound Blaster? One would assume that you'd want something phat like an Audigy or better.-Then there is this idea that "As a DVR, one tuner was just OK[...]", sorry, but TiVo and all similar devices have 2 tuners as well, that's why you can record one show and watch another, that gripe doesn't hold water.-I'm missing the problems recording VHS, never had any problems.-ATI and HDTVs as monitors is the bane of all media pc's from what I understand. Yeah, ok, I'll buy into that being a valid gripe, but I tossed my X300 in the garbage where it belonged and went nVidia and all is well. S-Video for HD...err...the guy needs to smoke another one.-The truly valid gripe is with music. The thing is that this is supposed to be accessible to non-geekers, so the default settings try to pull in all your music and catalog it for you. I've tried all sorts of auto-catalog software, and none have worked 100% on my collection. It's pretty darn easy to go into the settings for Media Player and UNCHECK A SINGLE BOX that says "Let Media Player Catalog My Music". After that, it will just use the standard tags, not try to rename andything, and refer to folder.jpg as the album cover. Easy easy easy.I'm not saying its perfect, but when I think it needs to be said that this is the first OS/HW combo that has gone semi-mainstream in this realm, and pleanty have tried. Combine that with the fact the MS originally was INSISTING on OEM only so they could be sure the hardware could handle the load...but people complained...and now there are gripes that the hardware can't handle the load in non-OEM machines...err... [ Reply to ThisRe:Right tool, right job by SeattleGameboy (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @06:55PMRe:Right tool, right job by ricoder (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:12PMRe:Right tool, right job by buck_wild (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @09:59PM Don't take this guy too seriously... (Score:1) by iWill (867290) on Tuesday October 25, @06:45PM (#13876366) I have used MCE 2005 for about a year now. I have two HDTV tuners and a single standard definition cable tuner in the machine, and it has always handled them beautifully. This on a modest Athlon XP 2400+ mobile chip, using the onboard sound on an Asus board. The largest headache with rolling your own HTPC is getting the right blend of hardware and drivers, but if you do a little research and plan your purchases accordingly, the DVR software packages that are out there right now provide a great television experience, including MCE. The picture quality will depend on the MPEG decoders that you use, and properly configuring your graphics card for the type of display you are driving. Building your own HTPC is not for the technophobic, and for this reason you can buy OEM Media Center PC's from several vendors, but the software and hardware ARE there TODAY that are stable and easy to use IF you have the right skillset and are willing to put some time into overcoming the initial learning curve. If you don't like Microsoft products on principle, there are plenty of alternatives: MediaPortal (open source), MythTV (open source, linux), BeyondTV, SageTV, GotAllMedia (free), GB-PVR (free), MeedioTV, etc. I have played with about half of these, and they all worked fine, ONCE I got my hardware rock solid. Having said all this, if you don't need the extra functionality of an HTPC (music, movies, games,...), you probably aren't into tweaking anyway, and should just buy a tivo. [ Reply to This MS tried to get me to sell MCE 2005 (Score:2, Interesting) by spywhere (824072) on Tuesday October 25, @06:48PM (#13876395) My small company is an OEM System Builder, even though we don't want to build and sell computers (we'd rather fix them).Microsoft invited us to an event, gave us a for-resale copy of MCE 2005, and sold us $1200 worth of hardware that they selected to work with MCE for $399: mobo, Athlon 64 3000+, RAM, video card, tuner card, everything but a case and power supply. So, I brought it all home, built a Media Center, and invited it into our lives.It did what we asked of it, although it did so rather poorly.The sound and video were synched OK, and the TV listing and recording features were easy to use. The remote control and IR blaster worked our Comcast digital box with about 95% reliability (and that 5% is a HUGE pain in the ass, let me tell you). All in all, it did most of what a TiVo (or Comcast's own DVR) could manage, in a much larger and louder package.(Note: You can install more than one tuner card, but you must use the same tuning method on all cards... to do this on our setup, we would have needed to use two rented digital cable boxes). Here's the best part: the build was only stable for about a month, after which it would BSOD and reboot itself about once a day. Rebuilding the OS would solve the problem for another month, so it was NOT hardware-related.God forbid I had actually sold one of these things! Happy ending: the parts made a smoking fast desktop, which is stable (as stable as any Windows box, at least). [ Reply to ThisRe:MS tried to get me to sell MCE 2005 by spywhere (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:23PMRe:MS tried to get me to sell MCE 2005 by ricoder (Score:1) Tuesday October 25, @07:47PMRe:MS tried to get me to sell MCE 2005 by Utopia (Score:2) Tuesday October 25, @08:18PM1 reply beneath your current threshold. Works for me! (Score:2) by no_opinion (148098) on Tuesday October 25, @06:51PM (#13876419) A year ago, I built a media center PC using components off Microsoft's MCE hardware list and went with the components mentioned in various places as "most stable". I have an HD tuner and an analog tuner and I don't have any problems with my MCE. It's been reliable enough that I got rid of my Tivo. Of course, I'm not the typical user because I'm getting HD exclusively over the air (not via cable). I have my entire CD collection ripped to a second hard drive, I have over 2 gigs of family photos, I use the music subscription services, and my only complaint is that there's no automatic way to put it into suspend at night.I suspect that most problems are caused by poor hardware choices and unnecessary messing with the software and OS. If you want something to work as reliably as a CE device, you can't use sketchy hardware or use applications that were not meant to work together.Just one man's opinion ;-)